Missing number 2 & 3 cylinders

[89esprit]

Hi All,  Right out of the clear blue I've lost cylinders 2 and 3 on my 89 Esprit.  No Codes, 150 psi compression on all 4 cylinders.  Any thoughts? Coil pack? Fuel Injectors

Thanks, Kenny

[Bibs]

Leads more than likely if it's not the coil pack. Check the earths on the coil pack and give them a clean and then check the resistance of the leads. They may be fine at tickover and just start arcing under load but if you look at the engine bay in the dark you may see them shorting to the head or elsewhere. 

 

First post in 9 years, I guess your car is usually pretty reliable then!

[ramjet]

I think the packs work on 1/4 & 2/3 as pairs. If you have lost 2/3, I would suggest your pack is at fault. Do the checks that Bibs suggests first though.

[jonwat]

Didn't realise non se cars had coil packs, of course I could be wrong as it's a US car :-)

[Vulcan Grey]

The USA 89 NON-SE had the same GMP4 distributor-less electronic ignition and electronic injection as the SE.  It just had 4 injectors, no secondaries like the SE, and the ECU had 3 plugs instead of 4, and the ECU is not water proof.

 

Most likely spark plug, spark plug wires, coil pack, but it could be a bad fuel injector (or 2), as I helped a friend with a bad injector recently, though he got a CODE44 with his due to being lean.   

[89esprit]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm gonna check everything tomorrow and let you know. And Bibs..Actually it has been pretty reliable.  I had to change the ECU about 5 years ago...  Damn 51 Code anyway. Of course the FSM makes you go thru the whole thing step by step by step and at the end it says if you keep getting a 51 Code, Replace the ECU  Should have told me that first LOL..  Also I had to pull the left side fuel tank for repairs... That was a night mare...  I rather have my boys pounded flat with a mallet than go thru that again LOL! Also the usual power window nonsense, alternator, A C etc. etc.

 

I might not always ask questions, but there's a lot of great info on here and answers to lots of questions.  Great Site!!   I'm gonna need a lot of help with my newest aquisition. I just picked up a 77 Elite 503... Needs to have the engine put back together ... yipee yay.   If I didn't get for such a good price I would have ran from it.

 

Thanks Again to all!

Kenny

[Roy Lewington]

A couple of DIY checks you may like to try. If the engine runs put your ear on the handle end of a long screwdriver and press the blade onto the injector plug. You will hear it clicking if it is operating. Do it on all 4 so you will know because 1 and 4 are ok. If they are clicking it is very unlikely that both 3 and 4 injectors would be blocked.

Coil pack: Just get a length of insulated copper cable (household mains is fine), remove plug lead from coil, bear each end of the cable for an inch. Tape 1 end into the coil tube where the plug lead came from and tape or hold the other end 1/4 inch away from the block or similar metal. Spin on key, no spark it's probably coil pack. Again if you are not sure what results to expect try it on 1 and 4. Roy.

[dodge1979]

or just use an old sparkplug fitted to the lead and leave it resting ontop of the engine..youll see it sparking...easier than messing around with wire and tape..

[89esprit]

Finally got a chance to check the car out... not as simple as we all thought. I have a snapon ignition a analyzer that shows kv to the plugs. Getting all kinds of spark. Of course being the skeptic that I am, I did all kinds of checks. Swapped plugs, cleaned and swapped coil packs, etc. And still nothing. So I started to think injectors. But, why would two go out at the same time?.  With the car running, I pulled the wires off no.1, just about died... number 4 same... then thinking that no. 2 would not make a difference, because it was not firing anyway, it did! The engine stumbled when i pulled the wire off the injector!  Makes no sense. If I pull the spark plug wire off, no change, when I pull the injector write off, it stumbles as if it's contributing a little. No. 3 injector does nothing however. I have an engine stethoscope, and tried to hear the injector working, but there's just too much other noise to get a good listen. I'm going to check the FSM and see how to check for power at the harness on injector 3, to make sure power is getting there before I start pulling the fuel rail.  Any other thoughts?

[Vulcan Grey]

I had 2 injectors fail at the same time.  They just happened to be #2 & #3, so I couldn't tell if it was one bringing down the paired batch fired injector or if it was both so I moved them to #1 and #3, and then both were still bad.  If I had moved them to #1 & #4 then I still wouldn't have been able to tell if it was one dead or both.

 

You can also use an Ohm meter to measure their resistance.  They should be ~1.9-2.1 Ohm.

[89esprit]

Thanks Travis,  I'll check that and let you know!

[89esprit]

I checked the ohms and was to spec, but I pulled the rail off anyway and moved the # 3 injector to number 4 to test anyway, no problem . Injector works so I'm back to scratching my ass. I'm starting to think ecu, something up with 2&3 injector driverAny thoughts?

[fjmuurling]

Did you check the wiring?

Make a temporaly new loom just for the 2 & 3 injectors. A couple of injector connectors and some wires won't break the bank.

[rizla603104]

I had exactly the same issues last year. I replaced both coil packs. Then the injectors packed up. 3 was the weakest one. Number 3 injector was shorting out number 2 injector - so it looked like both were faulty. Both were replaced and all was well again.

[andydclements]

If you want to eliminate the coil pack from the consideration, swap them over so that leads 1&4 reside on the pack numbered 2&3, ditto the signal wires.

[89esprit]

I swapped injectors and coil packs.  I went back to the FSM and started following the diagnostic trees even though no codes are present. Borrowed a NOID light and ran all the ohms checks, voltage checks everything seems to be ok .Following the  FSM it seems to indicate the ECU is bad.  I had changed it out around 5 years ago and ordered another yesterday.  We'll see.  $114.00 so it wasn't outrageously expensive.

Thanks for all the advice... who knows I may still need some if this doesn't sort it out.

[89esprit]

As it turns out it was the same problem that Paul had! Except #2 was the culprit on mine.  I still don't understand why after ohms check was ok.  Car runs awesome again!

 

Thanks for all the advice!

[Russ91SE]

Sorry I didn't spot this post earlier because I had this same issue a couple of years ago.  I had no engine codes at all so it was frustrating to troubleshoot.  It started out as an intermittent problem, but then became full time.  After new coils and spark plugs, it ran OK, but then acted up again while enroute to LOG in Orlando.  Dave Simkin and Arnie Johnson ended up helping me solve it, and I replaced the fuel injectors to clear it up beautifully.