delco brakes get them working successfully and well

[dodge1979]

As a lot of people are aware, the Delco ABS system used on the S4, S4s and S300 is not very popular with many and I feel misunderstood and mis maintained. Ive never been too impressed with its efficiency since day one of my ownership, but have been determined that it should be better and was no doubt better when new. So, as the car was off the road over the winter months for hibernation, I decided to spend quite literally a few months researching and tackling this system, with a view to getting it working as best as I could and correctly, before making a decision as to its efficiency and worth.

Now, if I may, Id rather not turn this thread into a 'declo are rubbish what you need is.....or replace it with such and such...' I just want to share the work thats gone into this and the results Ive achieved so that we can have an informative and accurate guide to getting it working to its proper level of efficiency. OH and sorry if its a little long winded..I promise Ill put some pictures up too when I can to make it pretty

The result of all the work, money spent and time etc came to fruition when yesterday I took the S4 out for a spirited run to see how they perform under heavy braking etc and around town in traffic. The bottom line is that they work and bloody well too! So if you want yours working, or you think yours are working, (and I can pretty much guarentee they are not regardless of how theyre currently functioning) read on.......

Renowned these days for the unobtainable pressure switch that goes weak, inconsistant pedal feel, wooden feedback if any and non inspiring braking force, this system has been ousted by many and slated so I tackled things logically in my attack of this system. Lets start with the all important parts that are not available.

THE ACCUMULATOR

This is not available, and a suitable alternative is from an XJ6 Jaguar as we know, but these are becoming scarce too now and expensive. So, having looked at many types, which come in various sizes, capacities, pressures and screw threads, I settled on a Wabco unit which is very commonly available at a much lower price than the orginal was or the jag unit. Its and M14 thread, 200bar 0.3litre unit from a P38 Range Rover.

THe original Lotus unit was a 207bar 0.25litre unit, however the system never ran at this 207bar pressure so this had a greater pressure capacity than required and so the 200bar unit is still above the systems working pressure, making it a perfect and cost effective alternative.

THE PRESSURE SWITCH

The carrot dangling infront of us for some time of a new switch being in the pipeline, research being done etc has led people to either scrapping off the system or finding an alternative way of getting it working, but do they know if it is functioning correctly really? I doubt it. Even if your switch is cutting in and out as its supposed to I will pretty much guarentee it is nt working right and is junk. I have had a custom switch made for me that enables my system to work at the correct original pressures, but more of that in a bit....

THE PUMP MOTOR

THese are pretty much sound. Unless yours has been running all the time due to a badly functioning system, it shouldnt be worn so if it is running as it should according to the workshop manual its ok.

Thats the main components, Ill look at ABS later on.

What did I do? Well, having spent a lot of time looking at other vehicles using this system and seeing that pretty much everyone has had issues with poor braking efficiency these days, it would appear that this system has several areas that need monitoring, maintaining and replacing. A lot of it is common knowledge... When I made the decision to invest in the system I decided the first thing to do was to see what was actually happening whilst it was being used..ie what pressures were being created, at what pressures the pump cuts in and out, how much pressure is 'used up' out of the system each application of the pedal etc...I needed a visual interpretation of what was actually going on...so I decided that I was going to fit a pressure guage to the system, which I could then observe throughout the use of the system, ie from a depressurised system, watch it pressurise, see what happens when the pedal is applied, where does the pressure drop to, rise to etc..

I bought a 4000PSI pressure gauge along with various fitments from my local hose/hydraulic suppliers to enable me to fit a t-piece to the pump body between the original pressure switch and the pump, and fit the gauge to that. Ill deal with bleeding the system seperately later too...Then, I was able to observe the system functioning. What I found from this, that whilst my system was stop starting etc exactly as per the workshop manual, it was way out of spec.The switch was allowing the pump to run up to 2400 psi, and cut out as if it had reached its maximum pressure, and it would cut in when the pressure dropped to 1950psi. Now, the system is supposed to run at 2700psi top pressure, 2400psi lower pressure with the warning light on at 1800psi.

So even though the switch appeared to function correctly, it was only with the gauge that I could see how out of spec and misleading this was actually. Instant indication of a weak pressure switch which I bet pretty much everyones is....So the search was on to find a new switch, or an alternative one. At this stage, I spoke to PAULGT3 as I know he had problems last year with his switch failing, to see if he had solved it. It turns out he had made a temporary solution but was still searching, so we had a meet up and a good chinwag over coffee and came to the conclusion that we had both spent november and december last year researching the net etc to find a solution, so exchanging info we decided to use my car as the experiment to get this sorted..

Paul had purchased a switch from a Reatta which looked the same, but when it turned up it was MASSIVE so not a suitable replacement! But he and I had also been looking at possible solutions from the same companies, and after contacting several I found one that would make me a switch to function as I wanted, but without the pressure circuit. More of this in a bit...

So, the switch is faulty...but I discovered something else, which I dont think has ever been mentioned before and that is what happens when the pump turns off. When the pressure reached 2400psi, the pump shut off. But then the pressure dropped, and settled after say15 seconds to 2100psi or there abouts....where it stayed constant until obviously the pedal was pressed. Now, I had two thoughts initially, one was that I had a leak and secondly that my accumulator was weak and not holding the brake fluid under pressure, and so allowing the system to loose pressure.

In order to test the leak theory, I left the system pressurised at the 'settled' pressure of 2100psi for a week. I came back to the car and the pressure was still reading 2100psi. Ok, if there was a leak it would drop and creep down over that length of time even only a small bit, but nothing. So, my attention turned to the accumulator. As we know, this is a pressurised ball with a rubber diaphram inside. On one side it has nitrogen gas, on the other side the brake fluid is pumped in against the diaphram, which then expands against the nitrogen and results in the fluid being held under pressure. Naturally the nitrogen will seep through a weak diaphram resulting in a poor performing accumulator. Manufacturers recomend these are replaced regularly. This is a maintenance side of this system that seems to not get done, contributing towards poor brake performance. As a matter of course these should be changed after 5 years if I remember reading correctly, but of course it may be that they last 10! Prevention is better than cure..

So I researched into the accumulator now, and resulted after some time with the P38 unit. Slightly bigger, but as mentioned a good match. The only other difference between this and the Lotus unit is the way it seals when screwed into the pump housing. Both have an 0-ring, but the Lotus unit has a shoulder machined on it that fits snugly inside the pump threaded opening, sealing the o-ring against the body. The Wabco unit has no such shoulder. So, either machine a step in it to match the Lotus unit or more simply use a suitable copper washer to fit and seal. This is what I have done with no problems.

So with this fitted, the system fired up again, the pressure rose as before, 2400psi, cut out pump and then....pressure drops to 2100psi as before. Well, that mystery was solved a little later...

Onto the switch, I had ordered a custom switch which took 5 weeks to arrive unfortunately, but when it did I fitted it to my adapter piece on the end of the T-piece with the pressure gauge on, and fired up the system! Pressure rose to 2400 psi, settled down to 2100psi and cut out??!! Pressed the pedal and the pump cuts in immediately, up to 2400psi, settles to 2100psi again. OK not impressed. Long story short, I spoke to the company who then admitted they had failed to set the hysterises of the switch as I had ordered and said to send it back. Instead I obtained instructions from them allowing me to adjust it myself, which I did. I set the upper level to 2700psi, as per the workshop manual and luckily they had set the lower limit to 2400psi as requested. SO fired it up again and it went straight up to 2700psi! I was so happy, until it then dropped again to 2400psi....

The reason I believe this is, is that it is a natural 'give and settle' in the system. Basically, it is the nitrogen in the accumulator settling down after the initial force of fluid against it, gas will compact more so than fluid, so the fluid compresses the nitrogen slightly further resulting in a lower fluid pressure as the nitrogen isnt holding its density as much against the diaphram..

The solution here was to adjust the switch to over pump to a higher pressure, ie 3000psi which would then allow it to settle to the required 2700psi. Now two things to note here, the pressure safety valve in the booster master is set at 3400psi to vent excessive pressured fluid back into the reserviour, so this pressure is not a problem to pump up to initially, as the system settles quickly down to its correct functioning pressure. Secondly, the original black plastic pressure switches used on these system were functioning at a higher 2900psi to 3000psi pressure, the replacement grey ones were lowered to 2700psi. All Delco units had these switches change no matter what vehicle they were fitted to. They were changed under warranty as there were fears of excessive and premature failures of components in the booster system. The switches were made by GE Captial for anyone interested too....

So now Ive got a working switch, new accumulator and the system is at the right pressures. Now I mentioned this switch doesnt have the warning light function but this is not a problem at the moment the system will still work as it should. More on that later.

When replacing these components, I followed the workshop manual exactly as per its bleeding methods. I ran the brakes over a weekend covering some 380miles of motorway and town and country lane driving and felt there was an improvement, but not as good as I thought it should be. Until last week....

I decided that I would bleed the system again, using a vacuum bleeder, but absolutely meticulously and slowly...the system is a pig to bleed. Basically, on a completely depressurised system starting at the front right caliper, then front left, then rear right then rear left. then the inboard booster cylinder bleed nipple, then the outboard nipple, then the inboard again, then the outboard again. I spent about 40 mins each bleed nipple, allowing minimal fluid through to ensure no air was being pulled up the thread of the bleed nipple...it was slow but neccassary. The booster nipples seem to draw air badly, as soon as they are fractionally slackened off they become loose in their thread, so i squirted washing up liquid over the the thread and this stopped them drawing up air this way, with a reapplication of washing up liquid every so often. Then, I turned on the ignition and pressurised the system, then ignition off then pressed the pedal lightly, ignition on for three seconds, then off then on then off, ten times as stated in the manual, for three seconds each with the pedal held on constantly. Youll hear the solenoids click on the three second mark. This will cycle the ABS solenoids. Then its done.

Ok it took hours to bleed, but the results were worth it. I currently run my system with the two ten amp fuses removed from the ABS system to disable it, as I want to test the braked with my own skills. I went for a run yesterday having finished and they were brilliant. Its important to note that I run yellowstuff pads, which is not the best choice for this system. I can explain later as my fingers are tired now! But basically once theyre warm they were biting and applying some suprising pressure that I didnt have before. I was able to shave 110 down to 70 in a second or two, the wheels were locking at 50 to 70mph with a sharp stab of the pedal...never before was this happening! Obviously with the ABS enabled they wouldnt lock as such but continue braking as the system allowed...

So the result of a hell of a lot of research which has been very sharply summed up here, time, experimentation, effort and determination I feel I have a set of braked I would be very comfortable with on a track, I have confidence in them at speed to pull me up if an emergence happens and to work under hard driving without failing me. This is how the system should be working. And Im sure no one here has driven the Delco system on the Esprit when new to know how they actually were and how they are now is so different.

Now there are more details to be had of the fitments Ive used, pictures to post etc but Ill thank anyone reading this far! Sorry it was so long winded but the explanations are needed to make everything clear for others to hopefully use....obviously any questions Im happy to talk through

These systems need to be kept going, or what will happen to the S300's? Theyll get butchered. Who wants that really....

[karmavore]

I'm way to tired (lazy) to read all of that right now, but THANK YOU for putting it all together!!

[dodge1979]

yeah sorry about that, If I didnt get it out of me head tonight It would be bouncing around in there and I wouldnt sleep!

[Bibs]

I read it all the way through, very informative post

[910Esprit]

I thought so too - haven't got Delco brakes but it was a good read...

[cjtpb13]

Darren,

Looking towards more. I read all the way thru and now will sit and reread the service notes on my flight. Then I can go back and compare what you have done. Thanks for posting.

Though I must admit, despite years reading about how everyone dislikes this system and all the issues with it I have never had an issue. Nor do I have any major complaints with regards to the system. I do use Espritmon to allow a bleed on the brake/ABS system and faithfully change my fluid yearly including the last 2 years while it has been just sitting awaiting repairs to be completed.

Edited April 16, 2012 by cjtpb13

[dodge1979]

Well Ill post up a few more things in detail, regarding the switch etc and wiring, and of course when Ive decided to re-instate the ABS how that functions...but for now the Delco future is looking a little brighter and more reliable..cheers guys

[philip600]

I'll be keeping an eye on this post with interest.

The brakes on my S4s are far better than when I bought her last year but could be better & I'd far rather keep the standards set up if at all possible.

Many thanks for spending the time doing the write-up, looking forward to pics & update when ABS re-connected.

Excellent work.

Phil.

[DanR]

Yes thanks. I've driven a few of the Delco systems. There was one that had superb brakes, even with the Toyota calipers, which I found curious. Maybe it was operating like yours does now.

Where does the alternative switch come from?

[dodge1979]

Well there is more detail to come, but I thought if I do it in sections it will be easier for people to refer back to in the future and it will make things an easier read than lots of.little posts, and I was aware last nights first post was a bit mammoth for some to go into that late at night..i was tired writting it! Im away for a few days though from tomorrow as its my birthday and the missus has organised a suprise...unfortunately it wont be an evora.. But hey ho! When I get back ill get pics uploaded and start on the rest of the detail section by section, to make this brake system as clarified as I can.

But just quickly to answer two questions posted, the switch body is actually made in Italy and imported to a.company in the uk for assembly to your specs. Im going to.detail everything about it in a section soon with pics etc...and DanR as far as I was aware the delco system was fitted alongside the brembo.calipers..i didnt know it was fitted to some Toyota sourced ones too I thought they were all traditional servo and master cylinder systems like the se..although if there was a number of cross over vehicles then I couldnt comment on how well they performed.

So ill get more detailed info when im back..its a pain to write lots on my phone on the forum its easier on the laptop and all the pics are on there too....

[ramjet]

I have used a pressure gauge on mine to assess what was going on and never saw a 300psi drop after the pump stopped. There has to be something going on there which you need to check further.

I have never been unhappy with my Delco system and I do know that my switch has gone soft on the high pressure side as I have posted before on another thread on here.

You need to be very cautious not having the low pressure warning function as if you have a pump failure or anything else that causes low pressure, you are not going to know until you press the pedal.

I get nothing from this, but at the sake of sounding like a broken record.

A 2 switch solution exists and has been sold now to several different countries and a Sydney Lotus dealer with, to date, no comebacks. Steve Taylor developed this over the last 4 years and it has engineering certification.

Steve has been able to lower the price due to the numbers he is getting made now to $360AUD.

I do not know your insurance requirements in other countries. An insurance company here in Oz could quite easily knock back a claim, if it could be proven that the braking system was at fault and had been modified.

[dodge1979]

To quickly nip this one in the bud, as to be honest I was waiting for this to come up. The pressure warning will be delt with in a detailed section, I didnt say it wasnt going to be part of the final setup. But to say now, if you were running a traditionalservo system, do you have a warning light if for whatever reason your servo or brakes fail? The advantage of the delco system is that in the event of the pump failing, there is a reserve of pressure which will still safely stop you without any issues, warning light or not. I think that yes it is an important part, but it is not the be all and end all.

In terms of the setup available from Australia, to be honest ive made a solution here in the uk for less than the cost of getting it from half way around the world ane im happy to give all the information to anyone who wants it so they can sort there systems out. Im not interested in making a profit from this, just keeping things working. Ive read with interest in the past the thread you had written on, but thought that the cost was over the top to bring it over here and that it would he better for those of us this side of the globe to have a cost effective solution of our own available readily. On top of that, I feel that there are owners who want to understand what is happening to their systems, why it happens and what to do about it, which is why im going to go into detail on everything if people are interested. Im not claiming to have the first and only solution, just a detailed one to share with all to try and demystify and tackle some of the opinions on this system. Thats all :-D

[CHANGES]

Darren,

Well done.. ...I know how long and hard you have been working on this, your determination is a credit to you and the results well justified....I found the read very informative and not at all long winded... I look forward to the finer details...

Edited April 17, 2012 by CHANGES

[nigeninja]

Yep that's the longest thread ive read on hear and I'm still intrested in reading the rest you have to offer,Dam good stuff mate (smiley double thumbs up)

[RV_ABZ]

Many thanks for your really useful thread. It's of the upmost importance to me as I have a faulty pressure switch (on the low pressure side) and my preferred Lotus-mechanic has kept the system running through a relay-based bypass.

He's been investigating various alternatives for the switch (Peugeot 505 or Porsche origin) for some time but no solution yet...

I've already gone through the Accumulator replacement + complete system bleed, so the final piece is that damn pressure switch.

Looking forward to read more on this topic!

[dodge1979]

So, a few pics as promised. These two are from my first setup I tried, youll see the old pressure switch attached as the end of the setup, along with the original accumulator attached. This was so I could get an initial view of what was happending with the system, as described in the first text, before making improvements. THis setup was a little long, and I had clearance issues against the headlight motor mechanism. However, as this was only a temporary test setup this was not an issue. The final solution will show how I overcame this.

The second picture is of the two accumulators, Lotus on the right, Wabco replacement on the left..note the different stepped shoulder by the o-ring. I used a copper washer to ensure a sealed fit against the pump body.Bear with me, Ill post the pics in a development order to show how things went...

[RV_ABZ]

2nd picture?

[dodge1979]

Ok, for some reason Im not able to get any more pics on here... :s maybe I only get a certain size allocation per day?erm..in the mean time Ill give some more detail till I figure that out...

Well, Ive detailed the accumulator I used as a replacement, so lets look at the switch itself.

THE PRESSURE SWITCH

Now, the switch. I spoke to various companies explaining what was required and most were not able to help. However, I came accross one called PVL, in Crowborough (www.pvl.co.uk) these were most helpfull. They did say that they couldnt make a switch with three settings ( to include the third setting for the pressure warning), but were happy to make a switch to my requirements otherwise. So, as the pressures involved were high, they recomended a stainless steel body for the switch and I requested EPDM to be used for the diaphrams inside, as this is resistant to the brake fluid..I could choose the thread on the end of the switch and its size, so I went for a 1/4 BSP which is a standard hydraulic and fluid size and this would match up to the other components I had purchased in order to fit the pressure gauge in the system....The switch was also ordered with an EPDM o-ring on the end to help with sealing when fitted. As I remember correctly, the circuit on the vehicle operates as a 'normally open' contact inside the switch so that when the pump is required to run, the contacts in the switch close creating the circuit to earth the pump and it runs..when up to pressure the contacts open again, breaking the earth to the pump and stopping it...so I ordered the contacts to run this way too....

I was advised they didnt carry the switch body I needed in stock, so it would be approximately 4 weeks to delivery, which gave me time to experiment on other things...but more later. After 5 weeks, I recieved the switch. Excellent!

Now the switch arrives with a waterproof casing to cover over the wiring terminals on the end..although no wiring is provided, the wires are a push fit with securing screws. There were four terminals, but only two are required. A diagram is on top of the switch, so wire up the feed to the terminal shown to be the feed on the diagram, wire the earth to the terminal which will be the closed contact in use, the other two are not needed (an open contact and an earth). If you accidently wire the wrong one, the pump will run permanantly so be quick on turning the ignition off!!

I fitted it to what was to be my more permanent version of the setup (for the time being...), Important to note here, the workshop manual says you can bleed just the booster section of the brake system when changing switch or accumulator ( also, a Lotus warranty service bulliten says this too). In my experience this is not good enough and a whole system bleed is needed..but for the time being to test the switch, a quick bleed was done. Now as mentioned on the initial text, the switch didnt perform correctly. It wouldnt reach the higher pressure required, but a phone call to PVL resulted in them having not set the higher pressure..

On this switch, there are two 'hysterises', which translates to two settings. a lower hysterises, or pressure setting, of 2400psi and a higher hysterises of 2700psi. THey had set the lower but had left the upper unset so in essence it worked as a one setting switch. THey instructed me on how to adjust the switch, and it was a simple job to do (with an adjustment screw located within the switch body), with a pressure gauge already attached to the system. Once the higher setting was adjusted to satisfaction, the pump was running up to pressure correctly, use of the brake pedal would result in the pressure dropping and after the third pedal press the switch would cut the pump in as it had reached the lower pressure setting and so the system was running at the right pressure....

OTHER ITEMS USED IN FITMENT OF THE SWITCH/GAUGE

Now I must point out, that anyone doing any work on these systems, if your replacing anything at all, or are going to bleed your brakes I advise strongly that you replace one simple item. From the master booster reserviour, there is a hose that feeds unpressurised fluid to the pump body which is then pumped into the accumulator. I cant say how important it is to replace this hose!!! Its another maintenance item that is overlooked..

The basic idea is that it is at least 15 years old now, on the last cars to carry this system, older on the earlier ones. I can pretty much guarentee that if its not been replaced in the past, it will be 'sweating' brake fluid by now. I had always noticed what appeared to be condensation on the outside of this hose, yet had no leak. This is because the hose will have broken down over time and the fluid will be sweating through the hose wall. Youll need a length of two foot, and make sure its an EPDM material, as this is resistant to the agressive nature of brake fluid...all other hoses will fail very fast! Yes you will have to perform a full system bleed to be on the safe side, but as were talking about getting these systems running properly Im sure this would be done anyhow, for those that decide to go the full hog,....

Once the switch was fitted and I was happy with its performance, I bought and AMP connector from ebay, three pin variety, which looks the same as the existing switches wiring connector on the main loom, although it is slightly different. This is a waterproof connector and will give a secure and proffessional finish to the wiring..simple to do, just take your time as once the connector pins are assembled with the wiring and fitted to the housing, you cant get them back out without breaking the pins, so buy some spares maybe too incase..

So, with the accumulator fitted using a copper washer to ensure a tight seal, the switch wired up with the new connector, the only other details left are regarding the fitments used to fit the whole lot to the pump housing....

An M14 to 1/4 BSP adapter was fitted to the pump where the old switch screwed in, then the 1/4 BSP hydraulic T-piece was fitted to this, then a 1/4 BSP hydraulic to standard 1/4 BSP parrallel thread adapter was fitted on the end of this, which then the pressure switch was fitted to and sealed with a copper washer again to ensure its sealed. on the take off from the T-Piece, I had decided to relocate the pressure gauge...if you remember earlier I mentioned clearance issues....well I had a braided brake hose made up, again EPDM lined, to remotely locate the pressure gauge elsewhere so that there was no clearance issues, and it could be seen easier too. THis enabled the whole setup to be fitted securely, leak free of course, and neatly.

Finally, as mentioned this setup does not currently have a warning switch attached. Now, I have fitted a three pin connector into the wiring loom with this in mind, as it is already wired up to fit the warning switch. I am prefering at the moment to keep and eye on the system and its functioning, using the pressure gauge, and once completely satisfied I will either remove the gauge and fit the pressure warning switch in place, or fit a take off again in the system to remotely fit the warning switch, again keeping the whole installation neat.

For the warning switch, either the original pressure switch can be used or a single function switch could be purchased and set at 1800psi. This can be bought from PVl again...

[fflyingdog]

PVL made me a switch up too several years ago ,i did get something up on a thread about using their switch but inevitably interest wore off,i suspect as the original switches were still available.(which as they are now rocking horse pooh ,i have a brand new new one that am hanging on to untill this issue gets put to bed once and for all).I too thought the brakes on my S4s were good ,feed back and stopped me !

I appreciate all your hard work and effort in to this issue ,i also think maybe a parts list would be a great idea?

Cheers

Nick S4s

[dodge1979]

Nick, that is on the cards. I moved at the beggining of this month, and the esprit lives at.my parents house along with all the reciepts etc with part numbers, so unfortunately I dont always have everything to hand. I will be putting the numbers on here. As mentioned, I will be amending the final setup at the end of the summer wheb im happy everything is consistent and as it should, so ill be relocating items which will entail different parts to be purchased, but thats just a personal thing. The beauty is each individual can customise the setup how they want, with or without gauge, remotely positioned etc..in fact in theory the whole assembly could be.positioned elsewhere in the front if required..which is.something I have considered in order to be able to use.some.sort of.sound proofing around the assembly to quieten down the noise it makes...but thats the future so who knows! Ill try and get more pics up, but as mentioned im struggling for some reason..im not the best with computers!

[dodge1979]

Ok, figured.. So there are the Accumulator balls, note the shoulder on the original unit, which sits recessed into the pump body to help seal. Either a step could be machined into the new Wabco unit, or I just used a copper washer to seal

This is the two switches together, the new one below the original. The old one is attached to an adapter fitting I used to connect it to the T-piece I was using...which isnt used in the final fitment..

Below that, youll see the new switch disasembled, ready for wiring up.

The third picure shows how Ive relocated the pressure gauge with the braided hose I had made...it fits quite neatly I thought!

This shows the end of the switch. I chose to have it made with a parallel 1/4 BSP thread, but other options are available. I believe an M14 thread is possible, which would then fit straight into the pump body as per the original switch, if your not interested in having a pressure gauge or are not worried about the warning light at the moment...but obviously with the warning light option youll need a t-piece to allow its fitment..

sorry, the fourth picture is the end of the switch..didnt realise it would put it next to the others

[Vulcan Grey]

Darren,

Upload your photos to a site like imageshack, and then post the link here using the image button above the area where you type your posts.

see this for more help.

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/32256-help-i-cant-post-an-image-or-video-to-the-forum/

I'm sure everybody would like to see all of your project photos.

[dodge1979]

Thanks Travis, I did manage to get some on here, Id ran out of upload allowance on the forum..so thats sorted now,...I hope Thanks for the encoraging words! Anything else, obviously, Ill put up if there is interest or specific questions!

[dodge1979]

Just an update for anyone interested, as I mentioned before, I believe that pad choice has a great effect on the Delco system, in its function and feel quality. Well, to put that to the test, I swapped out the front pads from EBC Yellowstuff to a cheaper standard pad, an Apec item. The yellowstuffs are a hard fade resistant pad, great for hard use and track, but I felt with this system not so good for regular and town driving. They tend to take too long to warm up and cool too quickly to keep their bite in everyday traffic.

Having swapped out just the front pads to test this theory, an instant difference was felt just from moving off the drive! The pads were up to temperature quickly, and bite well confidently both in town driving and motorway use. Such a difference again in the system. Now, whilst I think the Yellostuff pads are excellent, I dont believe theyre suitable for the delco equipped cars. If it was using a traditional master cylinder and servo set up, I would expect a little more bite from cold due to the servo assistance. But because of the way this Delco system works, I believe pad choice is critical to how well the brakes feel and perform. Whilst I will be keeping the Yellowstuff's for track use, I would recomend to regular driving the use of a standard, or slightly upgraded pad if your not going to be pushing the car regularly.

Now, whilst I appreciate some will not think the Apec pad to be good enough, It was at a good price to purely show whether the theory was right or not. Now, I will be looking to find a pad suitable for my own personal driving and whilst Greenstuff is an obvious choice, Im not a fan of the amount of brake dust they give out. I used them on my last Mini and within a month or so they were seriously marking the alloys!

So anyone with this system, have a think about the pads your using and whether they are, as mine were, too high a grade for the use of the car. I was suprised at the difference myself...

[sailorbob]

There are two grades of Yellowstuff, 1793 and 1846. The former is the newer compound and I think it's generally being used to phase the older one out. Any idea which grade yours are?