Ian's S4s refurb

[Chillidoggy]

Well, you wouldn't expect a recycling company's tagline to be "Send us all your shit and we'll sort it out", now would you?

[Chillidoggy]

15 hours ago, Giniw said:

I am surprised you address that now, I thought it needed to be done with the interior removed? Or is that just the case for the heater matrix?

That reminds me I need to take a photo of my valve which can be more or less accessed from the front boot (accessed= operated by hand with a finger). By the way, I was surprised that even with the valve in hot position there is not much more hot hair coming from the vents. I haven't had the time to investigate any further though (completely stand by), maybe a reverse flush in the matrix would help?

 

Is your water valve actually working correctly? A reverse flush could help if there is sediment in the matrix.

If you have a LHD car, then I believe the valve and pipework are fitted on the opposite side to RHD, and thus access is probably just as difficult. The only thing that might possibly have been worth removing was the knee bolster, but I didn't bother, and managed to do the job with it in place.

The heater matrix will be a difficult and time-consuming job even if the dashboard panels are removed. I suspect mine has been out at some point in time, due to the silicone sealant around the heater panels, but I cannot be absolutely sure. I think when Lotus wanted to build an Esprit, they must have started with the heater, and built the rest of the car around it.

This is the original pipework I removed, you cannot see the water valve at all, but the green cable sheath is visible. This is not as per original fitment, but as I found the heater was best described as 'either on or off', I've fitted the solenoid valve in place of the leaking water valve, with new hoses.

[eeyoreish]

Good to know the Mrs has been helping you with your tool and getting your pipe in and out. Not sure (and don't want to know) why it would make your ears ache though... 

[swindon_alan]

19 hours ago, ian29gte said:

Job done apart from locating a rotary on/off witch that will fit the heater panel in place of the cable job. Not had any luck with finding one as yet, where's @swindon_alanwhen you need his electrical component tracking skills! 

I need to pick up an ignition-fed live and a negative from somewhere near the console, too.

I will get on this tomorrow Ian. Can you PM me the dimensions of the existing sticky out bits - shaft diameter, length, hole size, depth you would like. Oh my this sounds bad. Cue Sparky...

[Chillidoggy]

14 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

I will get on this tomorrow Ian. Can you PM me the dimensions of the existing sticky out bits - shaft diameter, length, hole size, depth you would like. Oh my this sounds bad. Cue Sparky...

I'll message you later, Alan. 

[Giniw]

Is that a photo from under the steering wheel in the foot well?

In a nutshell, my heater didn't (doesn't?) work, and the knob seemed too smooth to be linked to something so I started by removing the radio unit and indeed the metallic link into its green sleeve was (is) broken. I tried to operate it with a pair of pliers to better flush my water system (I was changing my cambelt at the time) but it looked rather stuck. As I had seen photos of the valve through the front trunk of a Giugiaro Esprit I then decided to check mine from there. I confirm it's different on a S4s (no blanking plate to access the valve) but I "accessed" it by removing the central blower. I mean, I managed to unstuck the lever of the valve and it's now much easier to move from cold to hot position. I stopped there since at the time I was more focused on the cambelt job and other things, but I still need to address that — it's still wide open under the hood. What is surprising to me is that whatever the cold or hot position of the valve, the air temperature was not really different ... Anyway, I will definitely post a couple of photos but the car is not at my place so I need to think to it when I am there ... !

I didn't want to hijack you thread (actually I had done mine on that subject already, I will get back on that subject soon ^^) but I was just surprised you haven't done the job before you finish the interior trimming ^^'

PS: yes my car is a LHD, maybe it's not really 100% symmetric.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Giniw

[Chillidoggy]

In my car, the control of temperature was not good, and impossible to strike a happy medium. Basically, it was either heat, or no heat, and nothing in-between. While we were replacing the wiper assembly, Sparky spotted the Ranco valve had been left dangling by its thermocouple, which was one of the banging noises I could hear below the dashboard. I had no idea if it was broken, but as some kind previous owner had fitted a replacement valve, it must have been. According to the parts manual, the Ranco valve is now listed as obsolete. So my guess is the original Ranco valve failed, none were available, so a simple replacement valve was fitted in its place (which I found to be leaking after I fitted the dashboard back into the car).

So if your valve is defective, you will have to replace it with an alternative. But whatever you do, it will be a pain in the arse to get to. I found the most challenging job was removing the old hoses, and fitting the new ones in through the grommets in the footwell, and another pair of hands is most beneficial. In my case, the wife was under the car pushing and shoving.

 

Barry - I've got a spare green cable if you fancy popping one in your car?

[Giniw]

All right thanks!

As for the valve, are you sure it's obsolete? I think I remember seeing some somewhere recently?! And the green cable too if I am not wrong?!

EDIT : I think I read they are also found on a few Volvos.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Giniw

[Chillidoggy]

Yes, I'm pretty sure they're obsolete. I remember when we first discovered the problem, I found valves for sale on eBay in the USA, but they weren't 'brand new', they were 'new old stock'.

The green cable is still available from SJ, though.

[sailorbob]

sanj posted another vehicle that uses the same heater valve here although I think they are obsolete for Volvo's too and their owners end up having to replace them with a non-thermostatic valve.

 

[swindon_alan]

There's an upgrade kit available in the US for the Volvo 140/160/240/260 models from 1973 to 1991, probably an equivalent over here too...

It might be useful.

https://www.ipdusa.com/products/4935/112976-heater-control-valve-latest-style

http://info.europartshouse.com/tech-pages/volvo-240-heater-valve-instructions/

There's lots of posts on Google about this, looks like a common problem.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=volvo+240+heater+valve

[Giniw]

In the meantime I found that, too: http://europartshouse.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=36

But it doesn't look like a thermostatic device.

[swindon_alan]

Yep, I'm not sure if you really need the thermostat function. As Ian has found out (and on Sparky's advice I believe) that the standard variable control is pretty pants anyway. It is probably overkill and an incremental flow valve will probably be better than just an on/off?

[Giniw]

Not sure either, it's just that I find it better when I can keep the car original but it's probably not really needed indeed.

(BTW I always laugh when I read your signature :D)

[sailorbob]

I don't think the thermostatic control in these old Ranco (type A?) valves is on or off. I believe it's a simple mercury filled capillary tube that operates some bellows inside the valve. It's probably why they are obsolete, someone probably decided the mercury was too much of a health hazard

[Giniw]

Well it is when you accidentally swallow the valve!

[swindon_alan]

I remember pushing mercury around an open tray in chemistry when I was at school. We used to take it home and play blow football on the kitchen table with straws with the stuff! It's probably the source of my madness (think Luton hatters..!)

[sailorbob]

I found this and whilst the configuration of the inlet and outlet pipes are different to our valve I bet the workings aren't too different. http://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech/Ranco/rancotb/rancotb.html

[Giniw]

This looks interesting, thanks!

[Chillidoggy]

I wish anyone that undertakes a heater valve replacement the best of British luck. Just don't make the mistake of underestimating the awkwardness of the job, that's all. 

[swindon_alan]

Harder than stopping Barry buying wrecks?

[Chillidoggy]

There are some things that require a miracle rather than simple perseverance.

[Barrykearley]

I'm busy - have hardly even looked on eBay ?

[Chillidoggy]

I called Slowly Cables London (Ltd.) in Wales (yes, you work it out) to elicit an update as to the progress being made on my gauges. When I asked if they'd even managed to open the box I sent them in, the immediately indignant woman replied "Of course."  She informed me once again, that as they only received the gauges on May 8th, and were working on a 6-week turnaround, they were likely to be 'another couple of weeks'. I pointed out that another couple of weeks would make it a 7-week turnaround, and also explained that if they'd told me it was going to take so long as soon as they received the gauges, I wouldn't have bothered sending them in the first place.

Pushing my luck a bit harder, I asked whether, having seen the contents and my letter detailing precisely what I wanted, they could give me an ETA on them and an estimate of the costs involved because I was right on the point of getting them sent back to me. "I'll have to speak to the workshop, and call you back", she says.

The phrase "Don't wait by the phone" springs to mind, as so far I've no such call. FFS, how hard can it be to make some kind of estimate? I mean, it's not like they haven't seen or done anything like it before.

Awful customer service.

[Giniw]

Awwww, that must be frustrating now the rest is OK(ish?)!
(Maybe they fixed their wall clock themselves the way they fix the gauges?)

Edited June 13, 2017 by Giniw