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Lotus Evora 400


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  • Gold FFM

Yes - when they do a launch - it's great to have bibs and other car oficianados there ...... But it's also key to get the interweb launch and presence correct at exactly the same time......

I can't imaging bmw, Audi or pork making such and oversight......

It is so much about PR when it comes to the sort of folk that would give Angela merekel a contribution

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Guest hosscartwri

G8RKH

What appeals to markets and segments of markets is clearly a very wide ranging topic and there are obviously specialists and consultants who are paid considerable sums to advise on this subject but, based on the

views of many of us on this forum, they get it wrong quite frequently.

Staying on the Evora 400 - several posts have made comment that it's design has clearly been influenced by

the need to meet American market regulations. With this is mind, the point I was trying to make is that in

my view, buyers of cars such as the Evora 400 are going to be serious sports car enthusiasts and, if they

are considering buying a Lotus, they will probably be quite knowledgeable. After all, the majority of

performance car buyers do not buy Lotuses so clearly do not rank handling and feedback as top priorities!

Given that, almost by definition, the group of potential Lotus buyers is relatively small, Lotus can not

afford to produce a vehicle, particularly at this price point, which does not at least match the perceived

build and material quality of their competitors whose vehicles the motoring press will tell them, also

provide excellent performance and feel etc.

I have said elsewhere previously on TLF that the dealer I bought my car through said that basically, once

potential customers come into the showroom and book a test drive, the cars sell themselves. The clever bit

is getting potential customers into the cars and if the perceived quality of the Evora 400 as bandied aroundin the motoring press is not a suitable match for the competition then sadly, many people will not give the car a change to beguile them with its performance, feel and feedback.

Many on this Forum as well as the press, are saying that the Evora 400 is up against Porsche and, right or

wrong, that marque is perceived as combining quality, comfort, feel and performance. It does not matter that many of us here believe that this is incorrect, Lotus has to deal with the perceptions of their potential

customers; after all, a person's perception is their reality.

Again, I am repeating myself from some months ago, but when I was "shopping" for a toy for myself I made an expensive mistake. I sat in an Elise at the dealer I ended up buying my car from 18 months later but at the time, I did not even ask for a test drive - the reason? - I thought I valued my creature comforts more

highly than the Elise S APPEARED able to cater for given its quite sparse looking interior.

I was fortunate that, having bought a new high spec German sports car and running it for 10 months, I was

able to afford to take the financial hit required to sell the Porsche and purchase a car which gives me the

performance, feel and feedback that I realised was so important to me and which, despite appearances, is

surprisingly comfortable.

At the end of the day, what I am trying to say is that it is unusual for a manufacturer/dealer to be given a second chance and that therefore particularly at it's price point/market position, the first impressions

created by the Evora 400 need to be good, all the more so in some markets such as the USA which is so

important to many manufacturers.

Combining this with NeedaSay's post, I would implore Lotus management to ensure that the quality control and marketing departments are at the top of their game.

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I'll speak to them on Monday :)

Hey Bibs, I have a few Q for you :unworthy:  please pretty please.

 

1. Were you able to have a look at the factory floor and the new Evora production line? If yes anything new to report on that front. 

2. Any news on the online configurator

3. Did they display the new "lower"chassis in naked form? if yes pics please.

4. Did they display the new engine outside the chassis ?

5. Are they going to finish building the extension started under DB's tenure at any point in a near future or is the structure going to rust? 

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 Actually they probably have but I'm also sure that Proton would rather have Lotus pick from their parts bins as to lower somewhat their own cost.  

 

Proton-Saga-Malaysia-December-2011.jpg

1. Were you able to have a look at the factory floor and the new Evora production line? If yes anything new to report on that front. 

 

There was no factory tour but I believe the Evora 400 is being built on the Evora production line, nothing new there.

 

2. Any news on the online configurator

 

I'm due to be having a look any day now, it's pretty much ready to go from what I understand.

 

3. Did they display the new "lower"chassis in naked form? if yes pics please.

 

Nope. But other than lower and thinner seals (which have no effect on the torsional rigidity) it's the same as before.

 

4. Did they display the new engine outside the chassis ?

 

Nope, but apart from a supercharger with built in chargecooler, again it's not different.

 

5. Are they going to finish building the extension started under DB's tenure at any point in a near future or is the structure going to rust? 

 

Still there as just a frame and it's not needed. If they finished it, it would be empty. I'd imagine it will become a priority if they need to expand the production capacity and need it for storage of clams/engine/tyres etc.

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As above... Where is he Builder?!

Shocking in this web age that it isn't there yet.

Current: 2021 Lotus Elise Cup 250 FE in Isotope Green, Red Alcantara Interior, Carbon Aero Kit, AirCon, Carpets & Mats, NVH pack, Cruise Control, Stereo, Red Calipers.
Now Gone2018 Lotus Elise Sport 220 in Metallic Blue, Alcantara Pack, Forged Wheels, 2piece brakes, AirCon, Hard/Soft Tops, Red Calipers, Stereo, Interior Colour Pack, NVH Pack, Carpets, Mats.
Previously Owned: 2016 Lotus Evora 400, 2010 Lotus Evora NA, 2003 VX220 Supercharged, 2001 VX220 Lightning Yellow
Follow my Lotus journey here: http://www.FaceBook.com/HandmadeInHethel

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Proton-Saga-Malaysia-December-2011.jpg

1. Were you able to have a look at the factory floor and the new Evora production line? If yes anything new to report on that front. 

 

There was no factory tour but I believe the Evora 400 is being built on the Evora production line, nothing new there.

 

2. Any news on the online configurator

 

I'm due to be having a look any day now, it's pretty much ready to go from what I understand.

 

3. Did they display the new "lower"chassis in naked form? if yes pics please.

 

Nope. But other than lower and thinner seals (which have no effect on the torsional rigidity) it's the same as before.

 

4. Did they display the new engine outside the chassis ?

 

Nope, but apart from a supercharger with built in chargecooler, again it's not different.

 

5. Are they going to finish building the extension started under DB's tenure at any point in a near future or is the structure going to rust? 

 

Still there as just a frame and it's not needed. If they finished it, it would be empty. I'd imagine it will become a priority if they need to expand the production capacity and need it for storage of clams/engine/tyres etc.

 

Thanks Bibs.

 

Well yeah Proton's parts bin...  :( That is some parts bin... Pretty happy they just used the mirrors and not much else for visible elements. I think they use water and oil pumps  but these are invisible, pffff. 

 

Logical about the extension but such a shame...

 

I was asking about the chassis and the engine cause I'm a bit of a nerd.

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  • Gold FFM

Please bear in mind that a proper, ready built car configurator is £300-500k, they're not cheap but Lotus have one ready to go, as per my answer above :)

Really, learn something new every day.

I'm in the wrong game is some fandango web based thingy really costs that much!!! That's a lot of bricks and cables!!!!

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Being German I'll admit to being partial to German Quality. But, since we've had repeated mention of them  on this thread, I would also praise an efforts Lotus can take to achieve Lexus or Toyota quality.

 

The big difference is the level of craftsmanship involved in assembling a Lotus, whereas both the German and Janapese builder rely much heavier on quality by design and automation. Whereas every Lotus build reflects the character, skills and mood of the craftsman who built it, Robots just don't have bad Mondays.

 

Secondlly, the parts quantities Lotus requires are so small. If the big guys test a sample item and it fails, they'll send the whole lot back. If Lotus does the same, that lot is one year of production.

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If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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To be fair, if a Lotus supplier nowadays has one failure in a batch, they whole lot or rejected until they get them all right. Quality really has taken leaps and bounds.

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I don't get the German quality thing Thomas to be honest. Yes back in the 80's and 90's very definitely the quality difference between German cars such as Audi, BMW and Mercedes was evident, Then Mercedes had an absolutely disastrous period of poor build quality with C and E class cars and their derivatives that they are only now truly recovering from.

 

If you look at true independent reliability surveys like JD Power and Which? in the UK then these brands are shown to suffer from high failure / breakdown rates and a high average cost to fix.

 

We do not have an indigenous volume / mass produced car company left in the UK, though the cars we do build here for the likes of Honda, Nissan, Mini, and lately Jaguar do have some of the best quality and reliability records of any cars made anywhere.

 

For its size and output Lotus is doing very well and looks like it is going in the right direction.

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I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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I don't get the German quality thing Thomas to be honest. Yes back in the 80's and 90's very definitely the quality difference between German cars such as Audi, BMW and Mercedes was evident, Then Mercedes had an absolutely disastrous period of poor build quality with C and E class cars and their derivatives that they are only now truly recovering from.

 

If you look at true independent reliability surveys like JD Power and Which? in the UK then these brands are shown to suffer from high failure / breakdown rates and a high average cost to fix.

 

British are manufacturing the best cars in Europe; without question.  German cars have become disposable, non-keepsake cars. 

 

Owning a British car is coming cool smart choice.  Hopefully Lotus can ride this wave along with JLR, McLaren and Aston...  

 

I think they will.  Their management is making the right moves IMO.

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If the car is not from the UK or Italy; it's not worth talking about.

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Some short remarks on the thread:

 

I think that it is a general mistake to think that all potential buyers for Sport cars read car magazines and esp Forum threads.

 

If we talk about "Quality" - we have to Keep in mind that several People have differnt things in mind, some think it is most important that the visible panel gaps are as small as possible, some people think the sort of plastic used in the cabin is very important, some think, better no plastic at the dash, leather is much nicer....., some think it is most important that the car does not brake down.....and so on .........

When I was studying I knew a Girl that claimed that her Ford Escort Convertible had very good Quality....what she didn´t mentioned was that every time at the dealer her father let nearly every part repair when it showed the first signs of use.......

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Yes use of metal and leather inside the original Evora was a deliberate attempt to lift the car above its mass produced competitors. No-one seemed to really respond well to that, journos only seemed to find fault with it while praising more plasticky cars. TVR tried much the same thing in later years and had a totally anti-plastic policy, everything was either leather or bespoke alloy, years before Pagani took the idea and ran with it. I don't remember them getting much credit for it either. I think the truth is most people find a mass produced feel inside reassuring. 'Hand made in England' is a turn off for most UK buyers. The E400 looks more mass produced inside so hopefully that will work.

Makes me want to pick up a discounted Evora SR though with even better ride and steering. That would be my dream everyday car.

Can anyone tell me what a Pagani is like to drive on a hot sunny day? Doesn't all that machined ally just produce a billion shards of sunlight that distract from the road? The interior does look ace if you're really after an HG-Wells time-machine though!

IMHO - it's not the bespoke buttons that are wrong with the 'old' Evora - it's that they're both invisible and have no tacticle feedback as they're touch-sensitive. Nice ideas poorly implemented often seem worse than dull but functional - and badly placed controls which seem to be the result of half-arsed design reviews do make me wonder about the oily bits...

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  • Gold FFM

Why do these reviews open comparing with other cars......

Drive it, review it and sure then compare. But to start immediately knocking a lovely example of British engineering is just pure shame..

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From my standpoint I don't think it was such a bad review, it highlighted and praised the performance and handlig and price wise it sits between the Cayman and 911 which is where it should be I think. If you are looking for a fast involving car look no further but if you want to impress the neigbours of whoever else (assuming you don't live next to me) then perhaps you need to spend the extra £10k plus for the German.

 

Trevor.

I'll get around to it at some point.

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Ouch - they're a bit harsh about the switchgear but then again I haven't experienced it personally.

TBH I can follow their review. Lotus shifters and the Toyota gearbox remain far below state of the art (to avoid mentioning the "P-word"). And, the Alpine ICE is equally not even the best of the aftermarket units. Why didn't they at  least talk to Parrot to port an OEM-version of the RNB6 (like Volvo did)?

 

 

 

Of course, that won't stop a Lotus enthusiast from buying the Evora 400, but it may still keep potential new buyers from doing so.

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If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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I will have one too Lee at some point, hopefully that lovely orange one with the black pack! However, right now, as good as it will be, I could not justify sinking the best part of £48k into one PLUS my current 2010 NA Evora.

Now, can someone please order an orange one, 2+0, leather not alcantara and manual. Please enjoy it for 3 years and 15k miles and when the warranty runs out give me a call :kiss:

Ha, you're stealing my plan! However the sweet spot is 24 months from my previous experience
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Nooooooooo, Aurouge - the clue is in your forum name - ROUGE = RED. The world definitely does not need yet another Grey or Silver car anywhere.........    :2guns:

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

 

The small print.

My comments and observations are my own, invariably "tongue in cheek", and definitely, sarcastic in nature. Therefore, do not take my advice, suggestions, observations or posts seriously or personally and remember if you do, do anything, that I may have suggested, then you have done this based solely on your own decision to do so and therefore you acknowledge responsibility and accountability (I know, in this modern world these are the hardest things for you to accept) for your actions and indemnify me of any influence, responsibility, accountability, or liability, in what you have done. In other words, you did it, so suffer the consequences on your own!

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Why didn't they at least talk to Parrot to port an OEM-version of the RNB6 (like Volvo did)?

Of course, that won't stop a Lotus enthusiast from buying the Evora 400, but it may still keep potential new buyers from doing so.

Exactly.

Attention to detail counts when you're about to spend £80k! Come on Lotus finish it off properly.

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