Lotus Eletre

[Kimbers]

Hahaha, Graham. Maybe someone should have told Bahar that!

[auRouge]

SUVs tend to be daily driver vehicles and not an occasional sports car toy one can do without for a while. Maybe the dealer network in the UK is sufficient, but in the US the Lotus dealers are few and far between . I know I have enough trouble with my daily driver Mitsubishi Outlander now and could only imagine how much worse it could be getting a Lotus SUV serviced. Customer expectations are higher.

Just sayin'

It's a very good point!

Dealer network is sparse. They've surely got to partner up with a big player.

Now imagine $1.6bn spent on a new front-mid engined Elan?

MX5 sales could be seriously dented by that and Lotus could achieve volumes far greater than 5000 units surely? They could and probably should build it in Malaysia or China too.

If the only way to secure Lotus's future is an SUV then so be it. But I'd much rather see them try and do it with a sports car.

This would have been my strategy. Stick to what your core talent is and what you're known for first. Do SUV's in the future but sort out the basics.

An £18-25k two seater roadster like an MX 5 would work. Conventional layout with a boot. UK and foreign markets love a decent roadster with a British heritage badge on it.. Lotus badge on an affordable everyday useable platform is surely a sound direction. Call it an Elan and offer finance package that the 20-30 somethings can afford.. a hybrid version to suit today's fashion conscious market would also be a winner.

Do an SUV if you must but a light, fun and useable ragtop sounds obvious doesn't it?

[Stephan90]

http://sniffpetrol.com/2015/04/30/lotus-to-produce-turd/#.VUJRB4rd9D9

I think Lotus will struggle with this. I have lived in China and from personal experience I can see two major problems:

1. Most Chinese don't care about performance. Image is all that counts. Most Chinese recognize the three pointed star or the white and blue one but Lotus? Nobody.
   Walk around People's square in Shanghai and the big names spend crazy amounts on showrooms. BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Range Rover, Aston Martin, Bentley, etc. etc. If a Chinese wants to spend big they want to spend the money on the badge, not what is inside. That is why many cars that we have here have smaller or older engines for the Chinese market, even 3 gear automatic boxes.
    
2. Lotus being a flower suggests homosexuality. I asked my Chinese friend if he would buy one in China. He said he liked it but he would be afraid that people would think that he was gay because he drives a 'flower car'. 

Good luck Lotus, they will need it

[Guest hosscartwri]

Excellent points Mr Stephens - irritated with myself for not thinking along these lines - perhaps retirement does dull the brain! 

[The Pits]

I thought the Lotus was revered as a symbol of purity?

Nevermind, an SUV for the gay Chinese market - now that's a business plan Dany Bahar would be proud of!

[Barrykearley]

Never underestimate the pink yen

[TBD]

Its what saved Porsche and JMG seems to have decided that what they do must nor be wrong. Though the copy is rarely as good (or successful) as the original.

[ramjet]

Where has JMG decided that Porsche do no wrong?

That's a bit of a presumption. SUV's were made long before Porsche decided to have a go.

[Bibs]

But Porsche, a performance car company with no history in SUV's now make £2bn a year profit from SUV's.

[ramjet]

I'm not suggesting it was a wrong decision at all. I don't think JMG's opinion is "I will do whatever Porsche do'.

I also wonder whether these SUV's (or whatever comes from the JV) will only be serviced at Lotus centres?

[TBD]

JMG certainly does seem to have decided that Porsche is the prime competitor and has cited them in numerous interviews. 

I'm not saying that is a bad decision, as Bibs pointet out, it has been very profitable for Porsche. As long as 10 SUV's allow Lotus to build one new Esprit I'm all for it.

[Escape]

On 1 May 2015 6:09:07 pm, Bibs said:

But Porsche, a performance car company with no history in SUV's now make £2bn a year profit from SUV's.

They did have experience with tractors and 4wd though. And most importantly, their SUVs are very closely related to those of the VAG-group...

Now if Lotus would partner with Jaguar/Land Rover (Tata), that could be very interesting! JLR is doing very well, and there is certainly room for some more sporty 4x4s to stand up to the Cayenne, X6 etc.

[Jacques]

Lotus Building a suv? Oh noooooo!

The chinese thinking a Lotus is a gay car? Hmmm, maybe, but I also think that the chinese are not just clinging to their traditional values, but a whole new generation of chinese young people growing up with enough money and the internet being widely available, would interpretate it differently. Generally, I've seen asian people going berserk trying to get goods with a history, pref. from europe.

Like some americans do ...   

And Lotus certainly have history and have (yet) not sold their soul for some silver coins.

 

Cheers,

Jacques.

[Stephan90]

Yes definitely but you can't deny the others a fair bit of history themselves.

I just... I don't think that lotus has the funds required to make a big enough impact compared to its competitors. It works here in Europe where most people still vaguely remember lotus from its past glory.

However in China they have to pretty much build it up from scratch.

[DaveyT]

A Chinese driver in a Lotus F1 car might increase brand awareness a tad...

Just a thought.

[TBD]

One problem with these new markets, be it China, Russio or else is that the road quality is often not suitable for a true sports car. Sure, the very rich can afford a Lambo Ferrari, et. al. just for prestige, but the typical Lotus market generally does not have these funds. An SUV is much more relevant, as Porsche has shown.

[Loose Cannon]

Lotus have needed a multi seat family car ever since the Excel died, and no the 2+ 1/2 Evora was not a good idea in this respect. If the market these days is for SUVs rather than large coupes so be it. However in this segment I think Lotus is best as a developer of an existing platform, i.e. a modern Lotus Carlton, Lotus Sunbeam. This might be dificult these days as most big manufacturers now have their own in-house sporty brand name

[NedaSay]

One of the problem Lotus has is that their parent company is a not a first tier OEM but a third tier (regional player who is struggling to produce more than 100k a year) which is itself owned by a much bigger entity DRB-Hicom.

Proton appears is full of goodwill toward Lotus but they are at the same time a major deterrent for Lotus to establish in depth relations with a first tier player and Lotus cannot rely on the current platforms used by its parent company. Proton have conceived the campro engine with Lotus but it hasn't been a success and has only been able to conceive the Iriz so far. For their other cars Proton has a deal with Mitsubishi to produce the Lancer and the old Colt under license. Since last year Proton also has a deal with Honda for engine and platform licensing thru the tie up with DRB-Hicom. As they produce the rest of their cars under license, they don't own any IP on what they and Lotus needs: wiring looms and cabin tech... 

In the meantime their owner DRB-Hicom has an automotive arm (Hicom) that produces Mercedes cars and Hondas but as far as I know there's no integration of the Hicom in the Proton group as of yet. Right now it is all a bit of a mess really. DRB-Hicom is the biggest car manufacturer - volume wise - in Malaysia, Proton is the national manufacturer. DRB-Hicom owns both entities and Lotus thru Proton. 

This joint venture is Proton's third crack at the Chinese market and the second with Goldstar, the novelty here is that this joint venture will only produce cars whose IP belongs to one of the partners, Lotus being the third partner in the deal. And this time the shots are called by DRB-Hicom while Lotus is led by JMG who appears to be totally aware of what needs to be done in order to make this a profit center for Lotus. So if the car ends up using a water pump or an oil pump from a Proton car well so be it...

[Bibs]

More from Gales on the SUV here...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/11704129/Details-of-Lotus-SUV-revealed.html

[Jacques]

I saw a chinese motorcycle the other day. It was a copy of a Harley in miniature scale at 250 cc. with lots of crome...  on plastic...

When it started it sounded terrible. He gave it a lot of throttle, and it hardly didn't move.

I asked him about spares, and he said he had not needed anything yet, but it wasn't possible to get any here in Denmark, so he would have to import them from China.

So much for the motorcycle from China - what a load of crap. You don't even have to change oil on the poor thing. Just pour it Down the drain and press out a new complete motorcycle from the bubbleplastic container.

An a car? I read somwhere that Chinese cars are so dangerous, that then can never be allowed here in Europe. No matter what they make, it's crap, bad bearings, bad metal, bad design, bad execution, and all about looks, not function, a design they steal from the West.

Malaysia, china, Taiwan - it's all the same to me. Nasty environmental production, which is a threat to all of us on the planet Earth, and super crappy construcion, really bad execution, no spares and no reliability.

Does anyone remember the ford Escort made in brazil btw? What a heap of scrap. Never worked, didn't fit spares with the British and german made ones, and rusted faster than a stock broker can say SELL!

Countries from asia just copy and violate every single product and copyright law from the West.

And we should buy their crap?

I think not.

Money from asia cannot buy novelty.

Cannot buy quality.

Cannot buy the blodline.

Just like their overcromed tube hifi, I'll never own it, never even listen to it.

I am not snobbish, and I actually think that an asian copy of a say omega Seamaster Planet Ocean or a Danish design chair like the PK22, is far more snobbish and silly, than buying the real McCoy.

A lotus from china?

A lotus as a SUV?

No thanks.

I'd rather walk.

Never.

Period.

 

Cheers,

Jacques.

[auRouge]

TG last night suggested 50% of all cars sold in the future will be SUV's... I wish them every success in building an SUV!!

Brand will appeal but the quality control and customer service from the manufacturer needs to be there. I'm not convinced they are ready but hope to be proved wrong.

If it was my decision id have gone for a two seater practical (road rather than track) cheapish (£20k) roadster to compete against an MX5 and do what they know rather than risk the highly competitive SUV market... A car that would appeal to everyone rather than us!

[Frickin_idiot]

They said that about Japanese bikes when Britain was king of the makers.

Im the first to say a lot of the stuff that comes from China is crap but I think that says more about us wanting thing but not to pay a realistic price for them.

China is not a small country and to band all the engineers together is slightly naive. There are some great things engineered in China...just a long as they are carefully sourced.

Buddsy

Budsy the voice of reason, my only concern would be that Lotus does this right.

[Barrykearley]

They eat dogs........ Um pretty much end of argument gents!!!!

Lotus must do what secures the future of the brand ......... Let's have that new esprit then...

[Stephan90]

Yeah um my girlfriend is Chinese and has lived in China 23 years but has never eaten dog.

English all have terrible teeth.

Back on topic:

The Chinese buyer cares very much about the brand name. Lotus just doesn't have any brand appeal in China. Mercedes, BMW, Porsche.

[NedaSay]

Quote

Gales is keen to continue the current deal it has with Toyota so the SUV will be petrol-powered and most likely with hybrid electrification to satisfy Chinese buyers. But if the decision is taken to sell the car in Europe, the SUV would “have to be offered with a diesel engine” making it the first diesel-powered Lotus ever.

Arrgh a diesel engine in a Lotus...  Why not go with the hybrid tech available to Lotus with the range extender.  And then Toyota and high performance diesel engine... The one thing Toyota doesn't really do... Lexus do not sell with diesel, they all go with hybrids... Toyota diesels are of the "agricultural" sort mostly sold in South east Asia and fitted on heavy duty or medium duty trucks or on the 4WD vehicles like the Land Cruiser. For now their best diesel engine sold in Europe is  4 cyl 3L with a whopping 190 bhp  on tap...

They don't sell many diesels over here because US EPA hates diesel and Euro IV is not going to be very kind to diesel, so yeah diesel...

The good thing is that they have tuned the EA60 gearbox for so long that the tranny will be perfect, they will only need to tune the engine... like mad. Or source it from some other OEM.