The Donald.

[silverfrost]

Yes i heard about the OZ news feed,  I find it strange to be fair with stuff like this coming from the Oz pm,   As normally they start  firing warning shots at the immigrant boats when they start getting to near the shore   

So for this to come out the Oz pms mouth is strange and i have always seen and thought of Australia as having one of the best security and stricktest boarder controls going ?

[C8RKH]

It also helps that are in the middle of the middle of the ocean thousands of miles from anywhere!

I also find it funny, or is it ironic. I mean Trump says you can't travel here if you're from there.  The Dutch PM, Mark Rutte, publishes an open letter basically saying dowe say and live how we want you to live by our rules and values or flook off back to whence you came from, even if that was three generations ago, and no-one really raises and eyebrow, let alone has 100,000 people marching in the streets in the UK.

After watching question time last night, with another lefty shouty (and why they are always female?) left wing MP, I am increasingly of the opinion that those with a strong left leaning are actually anti-democracy and anti-freedom of speech. It really is quite amazing how they "shout everyone else down and try to score cheap political points" every time they open their mouths.

I mean, the left, especially the extreme left which is communist leaning, has a terrible track record on free speech, basic human rights, freedom of movement, etc. Some of the most brutal regimes of the past 100 years have been left wing. I do sometimes worry why the common working man prefers the left socialist view, as actually, they usually suffer the most under it.

 

[Chillidoggy]

I asked a friend of mine who lives in Boston how he saw the media, and its portrayal of Trump. He said the following:-

"I don’t know how the media treats Theresa May, but here in America 90% of the media is essentially part of the opposition party and they treat our president with total disrespect.  The majority of Americans don’t trust anything the mainstream media says because they have been proven to be liars to advance their agenda over and over again.  Trump has hundreds of thousands of followers on social media so he can pretty much communicate directly with the American people, which he does often, in order to avoid the media’s dishonest portrayal of his statements, positions and actions."

Ain't nothing sells like bad news?

[silverfrost]

Todays news feed,  Is slating Trump for an operation by Navy seals that went down in the Yemen,  one navy seal was sadly killed during the op, and a few women civilians,  

They are trying to say he rushed the op, and with this been his first operation he has failed to take evidence into account as int on the ground was lacking ? 

I feel that all presidents do what they are told to by the American generals, Very sad to hear the Seal team member died during the op but that goes with the territory of special ops, sadly no matter how much training you do, you always know the risks when putting boots on the ground.  

And the women civilians killed ?  You would think that these are not the kind of women who strap explosive to their chests or cant pick up a weapon, Neither Muslim women or children can be counted as JUST innocent civilians in most of these cases imo. 

Everything Mr Trump does is going to be slagged of by the media,  They blame him for lack of inteligence yet the Americans not long ago and us British invaded a whole country on sxxxte intel. 

I personally feel the media and other opostion parties are deep down very scared of Trump as he says what he things, glad to see he is sending more ops into Yemen the rat hole  

[ramjet]

On 2/3/2017 at 17:45, C8RKH said:

Maybe because it is being reported elsewhere but the BBC are ignoring it? Or because the BBC and other news channels have different agendas?

Loved last nights BBC news where they reported Trump had a stormy call with the Oz PM because the Oz PM was pissed off that Trump would not now allow in 1500 odd immigrants to the US that Oz would not let in to their own country.

Apparently its unreasonable for Trump to not accept someone dumping their problem on the US. Me, i just though hell yes, way to Trump. Trump for the win.

I mean. Trump gets lambasted for stopping people travelling and the Oz PM is a nice guy despite putting immigrants in a detention camp on a remote Island and paying boat owners to turn around and take asylum seekers somewhere else. Anywhere else. And we think there is no biased agenda?

Lol....  all world leaders do unsavoury stuff. Difference with Trump is he tweets and tells everyone about it. Doh...

I think you may find that the agreement with Obama was to settle 1,500 asylum seekers who had passed the entry requirements, but with bureaucracy etc, were still sitting in detainee camps awaiting settlement. There has proven to be a large issue with this. Any asylum seekers found to be trying to pull a shiftie are deported. It may be possible that Obama agreed to take some to put them through applicable refugee status and then settle them. Interestingly, they all come to this place. Actually, calling them illegal immigrants is wrong. Illegal immigrants are those that have immigrated and have been deceptive to achieve this and are the caught. All of these people are classifieds as asylum seekers until they fail their refugee status. They are then deported. They can not be called illegal immigrants.

The asylum seekers are kept on a remote island so that the message gets though that just because they come to Australia, they cannot consider being on Australian soil as a given.

On 2/3/2017 at 17:54, silverfrost said:

Yes i heard about the OZ news feed,  I find it strange to be fair with stuff like this coming from the Oz pm,   As normally they start  firing warning shots at the immigrant boats when they start getting to near the shore   

So for this to come out the Oz pms mouth is strange and i have always seen and thought of Australia as having one of the best security and stricktest boarder controls going ?

Yes, shots are fired across their bows, but when you see the footage, any ammunition is pointed well in advance of any other boat. The Navy, nor the government, could EVER justify actually shooting a boat. Have you ever seen a refugee boat stop form the Navy firing? They only stop once they are boarded. By this point, generally all people smugglers have left the boat. Please don't bring up the findings of the 'Children Overboard' fiasco. I know a man whose son was on the Navy boat concerned. The event did happen. The crew would not back the Captain's recollection of events as no-one liked him and they knew if they didn't back him up, the captain would be sidelined. New captain.

So we asked for assistance with asylum seekers. Interestingly, just about everyone has said 'no' that has been asked, yet many people have a go at our government for not being lenient enough.

On 2/3/2017 at 19:51, silverfrost said:

Todays news feed,  Is slating Trump for an operation by Navy seals that went down in the Yemen,  one navy seal was sadly killed during the op, and a few women civilians,  

They are trying to say he rushed the op, and with this been his first operation he has failed to take evidence into account as int on the ground was lacking ? 

I feel that all presidents do what they are told to by the American generals, Very sad to hear the Seal team member died during the op but that goes with the territory of special ops, sadly no matter how much training you do, you always know the risks when putting boots on the ground.  

And the women civilians killed ?  You would think that these are not the kind of women who strap explosive to their chests or cant pick up a weapon, Neither Muslim women or children can be counted as JUST innocent civilians in most of these cases imo. 

Everything Mr Trump does is going to be slagged of by the media,  They blame him for lack of inteligence yet the Americans not long ago and us British invaded a whole country on sxxxte intel. 

I personally feel the media and other opostion parties are deep down very scared of Trump as he says what he things, glad to see he is sending more ops into Yemen the rat hole  

Yet we never hear about civilian casualties when these clowns run around shooting rounds into the air in the spirit of celebration?

[silverfrost]

The remote island sounds like a great idea, If you are looking for a safe haven for yourself and your children, anywhere safe you would be happy with imo . Sadly with the UK the economic migrants,  oh i mean asylum seekers  pass through plenty of safe countries to get to the UK.  Because they know full well they will get everything payed for them from a country they have not put a penny into due to the fact we are so pc its stupid.

The only way of stopping this is to stop putting our hand out and say enough is enough.  

[100th_Idiot]

I figured out where Trump gets his policy ideas.

I was watching Machete last night (Robert Ridrigues film).

Machete (2010)

There is a line in it from a Texas senator (Robert De Niro).

"We're going to round up all the illegals and send them back. But first we're going to make them build a wall and we're not going to pay them"

[Chillidoggy]

And this from "Hell or High Water":-

"You boys robbing the bank? That's crazy, y'all ain't even Mexicans."

[100th_Idiot]

Just bad hombres

[Kimbers]

I must admit I instantly thought "Why would America take 1500 all young men economic migrants when Australia didn't want them and stuck them in offshore detention centres?" which points to the fact they aren't refugee's at all. Then everyone gives Trump a hammering!!!! I must admit, I don't like Trump one little bit but I am starting to turn around just because the press are all putting such a negative slant on everything, even in this country!

[Chillidoggy]

284,908.

[silverfrost]

 Not much different than yesterday Ian then,  would love to see who some of those signatures are from, just to see how they live, I am more intrested to see what bubble they have been living in. 

I have a name for these kind people and its called oxygen theives 

[ChrisJ]

@silverfrost The number Ian is quoting is for the "Donald Trump should make a State Visit to the United Kingdom." petition not the one to ban him.

 

[100th_Idiot]

2 hours ago, Kimbers said:

I must admit I instantly thought "Why would America take 1500 all young men economic migrants when Australia didn't want them and stuck them in offshore detention centres?" which points to the fact they aren't refugee's at all. Then everyone gives Trump a hammering!!!! I must admit, I don't like Trump one little bit but I am starting to turn around just because the press are all putting such a negative slant on everything, even in this country!

I don't think that was the agreement. It was that they would take up to 1200 (approx.) if they passed the vetting process. So presumably economic migrants would not pass and only genuine refugees would be allowed in. Anyway. Who cares about details.

I agree that I don't see why Australia are so upset given their stance on these migrants anyway.

[comem47]

1 hour ago, ChrisJ said:

@silverfrost The number Ian is quoting is for the "Donald Trump should make a State Visit to the United Kingdom." petition not the one to ban him.

 

Yes, while he's visiting there Congress should append his ban to include orangutans and he won't be able to reenter !!       

[silverfrost]

2 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

@silverfrost The number Ian is quoting is for the "Donald Trump should make a State Visit to the United Kingdom." petition not the one to ban him.

 

[Kimbers]

I would like to know where these "thousands of people" marching through London and other Cities in the UK, or 1.5 million signing the petition, protesting about Trump, were, when Police Numbers were cut by 15,000, or Nurses had their Pensions cut by 25% whilst having to pay 25% more in contributions, when Student Nurses had their Burseries taken away and when Junior Doctors on as little as £24,000 were forced to work extra days and weekends for no money, when they are already doing 6-0-80 hour weeks, when Mental Heath beds were cut year on year until we have a crisis, when Ambulance numbers have got so low because of funding that you have to wait for an hour for an Ambo even for serious injuries. When Patients sit in Ambulances for up to 4 hours because there is no room for them in A&E, when we have 15,000 homeless in the UK every night, when men groom and rape thousands of young Girls in Rotherham, when MP's give themselves a payrise from £67,000 to £74,000 whilst giving Nurses (who haven't had a payrise in 5 years) 1%. Oh Lordy I could go on and on (and I normally do).

Where were they when all this was happening IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY in the last years? In their own country where they can make a difference instead of marching about something they have no decision or right to elect and therefore no right to question! I have had enough of these sorts of people jumping on a band wagon and being fake outraged by someone in a country they don't even understand, assuming it is the same as Britain, when it is a totally different culture and attitude in every aspect!

Instead be real outraged and try supporting those in your own country who need your help and voice to be heard! Help the Nurse who has just done her 3 year degree and got £45,000 of debt and starts doing 14 hours shifts for £21,000 a year, Help the Police Officer who is rolling around on the floor with 2 violent men because his backup is 20 minutes away and there is no one else, help the Doctor who has just done a 90 hour week for £24,000 a year and who has made a mistake because he/she is so so tired and now about to be sued, help the Ambulance staff who turn up an hour late to find the person deceased and then having to deal with it all by themselves, help the child who has mental health issues and the nearest available bed is in Glasgow, and they live in Cambridge so their parents can't come visit due to the distance. help just one of the 15,000 homeless from starving or freezing.

I'm not going to carry on because you get the idea. Stop injustice in your own country before you start interfering in others! That's why we have the issues we do in Syria, Iraq, Libya etc already!

[Chillidoggy]

I agree, those marchers need to get a proper job.

[Barrykearley]

And have a wash - oh and a shave

[Chillidoggy]

Bring back national service.

[C8RKH]

Yup. And we can use the marchers for live exercises to add realism to the national service experience.

Obviously only joking. Well, a bit...

[basalte]

These are quite inflammatory remarks above and under the principle of equal and opposite reaction I will remark.

Don`t worry it`s just good-natured banter ! Well, a bit....

Oh well, thanks guys,  you`ve just saved me another 65p  on a copy of the Daily Mail. 

I will speak up below for those marchers here and yes, you can care about what`s happening in the wider world and care about what`s happening here-and drive a Lotus as well for that matter .I am marching to support the NHS on March 4th. I don`t care if anyone notices or whether it gets reported, it will have made me feel a bit better for getting off my behind and at worst, showing just myself that I have a conscience about our Country.  

A proven liar with the power to incinerate us all scares some people and his attitudes disgust others such as that well-known long haired layabout John Bercow MP.

Ban people from certain countries ? Well start with Saudi then, their citizens killed thousands on US soil. But no, guess what,  Saudis aren`t banned. Invent a non-existent terrorist incident as justification.

As someone might put it : JUST CRAZY.  

From reading the above posts how am I supposed to not reach a conclusion that British young people -this country`s future- are viewed with contempt ? How else can you read  "use `em for target practice...they should wash, why can`t they protest about this country`s problems  etc etc etc" .

A good example of protests you may approve of  ?  Tony Benn in his time, marching with the Police Federation against funding cuts. Corbyn speaking out for British army veterans disgustingly thrown onto the streets. That`s the trouble with principles. They`re more complicated than grubbing for cold hard cash.   

BTW,  you would certainly at least need a wash if you were an eight-year old shoved up a London chimney, and then left to die of lung disease  at 16 (if you hadn`t broken your spine by then ).  Who put an end to that ? People who protested.

Sure they are idealists like many usually middle-class kids of that age but many will grow out of it and grow up to be bank managers accountants etc . At that age of relative irresponsibility,  moral imperatives take precedence over the daily grind of meeting the bills, getting kids to school etc. And like it or not (and you clearly don`t), a mixture of commercial and moral imperatives are what have moved this country forward for ordinary people over the last 150 years. Ending slavery. Commercial and moral imperative. The plimsoll line preventing the greedy and dangerous overloading of ships. Obvious moral imperative. Trains for all. Commercial and moral imperative. Health Service for all. Moral imperative which makes commercial sense.

All those things had to be fought for over the strictly narrow commercial interests that are still seeking to drag us back to the days when major surgery equalled bankruptcy and people knew certain illnesses were a Death sentence . 

       

[clivef38]

Commercialism will always run the world. But charity begins at home. As and OAP since last year and paid my stamp since 1965 and my state pension is £659.00 a month. Try living on that.  A small private pension thats worth peanuts now due to +ankers . So no problem with proper refugees as long as they pay there way. So all they have to do is pay into the state the same as i have done over the years to get there pittance. I am still in full time employment at 67 luckily still fit and healthy. Body 67 mental age 7 as my wife recons .

Edited February 7, 2017 by clivef38
Forgot to add last bit.

[C8RKH]

Lucky you @clivef38.

I'm 50 and have paid for state pension for 34 years so far and am fully paid up to the maximum benefit level. Given that, I have been told I have another 19 years to keep on paying for it and at today's rates I will get £620 per month. What a damn fine deal that sounds to me and even worse than you.  My parents generation have had the best of it by a long way, my generation is starting to pay for it and my kids generation will definitely be paying for it.  

It's one of the reasons why i voted Brexit. I'm not dumb. I'm not a racist. I'm actually pro-immigration. My issue though is that the EU through either rationale thought led intention, or through the law of consequences, created a system whereby people from parts of the EU thought that it was OK for them to come to the UK and that they would be handed pots of gold, a house, and all sorts of other things that they would never get in their own country without, and here is the best bit, having to work for it!

Wow, great deal. Where do I go to sign up for that?

I am not against the free movement of people at all. I am wholeheartedly against the freedom to benefit surf!  I have friends from places like Poland. My nephew is married to a lovely girl from Lithuania. They work hard. they pay their taxes. They contribute fully both financially through their taxes and also culturally and through actively being involved in local clubs, organisations and activities. Why would we not want that?

As for Trump.  I think is heart is in the right place, it's just that his mouth is actually his arse and therefore he talks a lot of s....  at times. But the sentiment of much of it is good - Jobs for US citizens. Protect the borders and prevent terror. Stop the exodus of manufacturing to the east. Stop the US being the go-to wallet for Europe's safety and security (i.e. NATO and get the EU to cough up), Etc. What is wrong with that?

Instead of being outraged at WHAT he says, we need to think about the motivation behind it.  It's not bad. It's how he says it that is bad. A lot of the protests are a pile of s....  People reacting as they feel like they are hard done to before its been done to them, or, in many cases, in spite of it not ever going to be done to them.

Oh well, off for a bottle of French claret whilst we can still get it.  

Just an opinion.

 

 

[basalte]

Don`t worry mate we can afford it. Just needs some people up top to actually care for their compatriots  instead of just SAYING they care...

Funny, fill your house with emaciated cats and cereal packets and they will call you a hoarding nutter...fill your tax haven with billions of unused pounds and they call you a pillar of the economy !   

The biggest lie put about is that any immigrants / asylum seekers / refugees don`t want to pay their way. (139,000 UK refugees out of 65 million total pop. by the way).

All the evidence is that they DO want to pay their way but the media seize on all the "family of ten live in a mansion on benefits " stories as the rule not the exception. 

.........Unlike I dunno, Sir Philip Green ? He might have to sell a yacht to meet his pension obligations to his employees, yes he can very much help with their pensions, he (or his wife) has the money in the Bank to do it.  

As in, he could pay the thousands who worked for him and paid for his yacht.

As in, someone who has megabucks and directly supported a lot of people who are now on the dole because of his decisions.

Abdul down the kebab shop by way of contrast, is not in that position.   

.....from where I`m looking the have- nots  make their beds on the pavement as I walk past them in the City of London every day but the  have-yachts rule these days... from where I`m looking and I see nothing to make me look differently (as I know many here do, not trying to convert anyone but I do want to make people understand why I take the view that I do).  

A simple test-who wields more power and is a greater threat to our way of life ?  A Billionaire with a printing press and a hotline to Government Mr. Murdoch (that`s when he isn`t the Government) - or Abdul down the kebab shop ?