Smart meters

[Mysterae]

Yes Barry, and they can switch you to prepayment mode if you decide not to pay your bill.

[Barrykearley]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63175030
 

and here it comes - the start of flexi pricing. Always said it was coming

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Is it true that smart meters can identify each individual appliance when it is using energy? I have signed up for something with EDF called Energy Breakdown and it’s showing me itemised billing for last month, split into Home Entertainment, Laundry and Dishwashing, Hot Water, Cooking, Lighting, Electric Car, Fridge Freezers, Always On. Can it really tell the difference between a toaster and a telly, a light bulb and a phone charger?

[Barrykearley]

No - it guesses based on energy usage patterns.

 

[RobinB5]

Would make for a great AI/ML application, but I doubt EDF have invested in such research. All the SmartMeter measures is the number of Joules you use per minute (for electric at least, don't know about gas). They can only assume what the Joules are used for based on, as Barry said, usage patterns. Even then, if you use a low powered and high powered device at the same time, the Smart Meter wouldn't be able to distinguish between that and 2 medium power devices used instead.

For us, the mainstay of electric consumption is for room heating, water heating and cooking. If you're going to try to tighten your energy usage belt, focus on those. The old adage 'look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves' really doesn't cut it.

[C8RKH]

Time of use tariffs were first mooted at the start of the Smart meter roll-outs way back before 2005, and in the US, in some states they have been in operation for some time. In Bavaria, they have had time of use feed in tariffs too for solar which have resulted in instances were people and business have been generating too much power to put back in to the Grid, at times of low demand, so that they have been "charged" (rather than paid) a penalty for the electricity that they generated.

In the US some utilities have deals were you get a discount if you let them remotely manage appliances like your aircon. At times of very high demand they switch off the cooling pumps/compressors/condensers which saves a massive amount of energy - the fan keeps circulating the air, so most people don't notice when this happens.

Way back around 2010 iirc, I was working with a German start-up who were able to monitor the demand in the home, and analyse the "signatures" of equipment that was drawing power. By creating a "library" of signatures for appliances they were able to calculate the power draw/load at any time from individual appliances such as fridges, toasters, kettles, dishwashers etc etc.  It was really clever stuff and way ahead of it's time.

The main problem in the UK is that we have a central agency called the SmartDCC that collects all the meter reads from the smart electricity meters, then passes them on to the supplier. This creates a lag in the system so doing anything without a direct, additional connection in the home, usually through wifi, is frankly too damn hard.

[pete]

Energy companies are using the smart meter to switch some customers onto a prepayment meter as they don't need a court order to do it as they do if they have to break into your house to swap a normal meter to prepayment. I am sure that wasn't part of the original idea of installing smart meters

[Bibs]

I've just had a look and my smart meter certainly doesn't have any facility for this unless it's contactless and all hidden somewhere? That said, it's a couple of years old now, maybe the new ones come with this built in?

[Barrykearley]

@Bibs yours may not have that feature.

what it will have though is the ability for them to disconnect you without entry to the property. The only way you can get power back on is to pay the bill or agree to a prepayment meter swap out

[Bibs]

Is it legal to disconnect people nowadays? If they're skint, having no heating/cooking/light isn't going to help! 

Actually, a quick google...

Under Schedule 6 of the Electricity Act 1989, your supplier is allowed to disconnect your electricity if you haven’t made the relevant payments, but not if the bill is genuinely being disputed, and not unless they’ve given you 7 working days’ notice.

If you have a smart meter, you could be disconnected remotely, but first, your supplier must have contacted you to discuss options for settling your debt, and they must have visited your home to assess whether being disconnected is an option for you. If there is a good reason not to disconnect your energy (for example, depending on the facts, if you have a disability), it might not be reasonable to disconnect you.

[pete]

All suppliers are notoriously difficult to contact and will use this to their advantage

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63554879

[Barrykearley]

2 hours ago, Bibs said:

Is it legal to disconnect people nowadays? If they're skint, having no heating/cooking/light isn't going to help! 

Actually, a quick google...

Under Schedule 6 of the Electricity Act 1989, your supplier is allowed to disconnect your electricity if you haven’t made the relevant payments, but not if the bill is genuinely being disputed, and not unless they’ve given you 7 working days’ notice.

If you have a smart meter, you could be disconnected remotely, but first, your supplier must have contacted you to discuss options for settling your debt, and they must have visited your home to assess whether being disconnected is an option for you. If there is a good reason not to disconnect your energy (for example, depending on the facts, if you have a disability), it might not be reasonable to disconnect you.

Oh it’s amazing how they can work around that and yes they can and do.

Once you are on prepaid meters - frankly - no cash no leccy - welcome to the new world

[ChrisJ]

My supplier keeps sending me emails demanding that they change the meter as my old one is "old".

I keep ignoring the emails.

@Barrykearley - can I demand that they change like for like, and refuse a smart meter?

[Barrykearley]

@ChrisJ just ignore and refuse

 

[oneshot]

When I renewed my tariff (June this year) it was a condition of the contract to have a smart meter installed. No smart meter then I revert back to the variable tariff so they have ways of forcing you to have a smart meter.

I am on a business tariff - don't know if that makes a difference.

[exeterjeep]

47 minutes ago, ChrisJ said:

My supplier keeps sending me emails demanding that they change the meter as my old one is "old".

I regularly get this as letters, just put them in the bin, I believe that until smart meters are mandatory they can get stuffed.

[ChrisJ]

They don't say that it will be a smart meter, just that my current one is old - it has gone round the clock once (at least). Just wondered if I could insist on a like for like basis as I have no wish at all for a smart meter

I've been on a variable tariff for a few years now - so such a threat makes no difference.

Reminds me, I need to take meter readings - usage compared to the same Qtr last year

• Electricity: 73% 
• Gas: 18%

Bill is 73% of last year (not broken down yet)

We haven't had the central heating on so far.

ETA - not sure if this figure includes the £66/month support - my account is £132 in credit.

[exeterjeep]

15 minutes ago, ChrisJ said:

We haven't had the central heating on so far.

Only had it on for about 10 mins when the boiler (oil) was serviced. Thermostat at around 16. But do have a log burner and it gets quite hot...But is really mild outside anyway.

 

[C8RKH]

Electricity bill for last 2 months has been £27 and £25. Don't know what all the fuss is about!  Granted, the £66 monthly support payment has helped for those 2 months 😜

[Rambo]

4 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

I regularly get this as letters, just put them in the bin, I believe that until smart meters are mandatory they can get stuffed.

What's a smart meter? Never had one and never want one.

Can't be anything more smarter than reading the meter(s) and sending in regular readings like I've done for 40+ years. It works.

[Bibs]

Riding horses everywhere used to be ok but I bet you prefer cars! 

I like being able to open an app and see my usage on a granular level if I wish, I find it helpful trying to save wasting money on utilities.

[Rambo]

20 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Riding horses everywhere used to be ok but I bet you prefer cars! 

I like being able to open an app and see my usage on a granular level if I wish, I find it helpful trying to save wasting money on utilities.

And spending it on cars and drones 😉

[Bibs]

[Rambo]

Oh aye, forgot the beers 👍

PS were you trained by Sy Vickers? 🤣

[Bibs]

I enjoyed many a pint with Sy, was very lucky to be able to be there to say goodbye too. Wonderful man.