Future of Lotus

[Bazza 907]

5 minutes ago, Jason is Chasing said:

Wow that's a big statement,  a ban on petrol cars in 2030 for the UK?!?!  Oh my

I think it's a proposed bringing forward of the 2040 date BUT it refers to a ban on new car sales not a ban on petrol cars as such.

[Jason is Chasing]

21 minutes ago, Bazza 907 said:

I think it's a proposed bringing forward of the 2040 date BUT it refers to a ban on new car sales not a ban on petrol cars as such.

Wild, as an American I've always looked at the UK as the last Bastian of hope for the Petrolhead,  and the driving experience, so its news to me.  I live in California so when I hear this about my State I'm not taken off guard I recognize,  we're a bit 'wazoo'.

 

To hear the UK blows me away 

[jep]

It is the banning of new cars with petrol or diesel. The legislation keeps moving. It was 2040 not including hybrid, then moved to 2035 and no hybrid powered vehicles. And keeps moving again and again with more to follow. 

The legislators want to (a) try to comply with air pollution targets (b) meet climate change targets already agreed (c) force car companies to find alternatives to fossil fuels. 

I applaud efforts to save the planet - quite right. I just don't think our old bangers are going to make a lot of difference and therefore we all need to push for the continued use of older fossil fueled cars. Supporting The Federation of Historic Vehicles and other such organisations is wise - they keep an eye on stuff like this and lobby parliament. Lobby your MP also.

There is a small danger that all petrol cars could be banned - old ones too. Don't let that happen, follow the news and object when proposals are mooted. Look at the London ULEZ - so far classics over 40 years (rolling) are exempt but that could change. A Lotus Excel is screwed for London from 2021 - it could come to a city near you soon. Or even a motorway - see what the Welsh Gov have done to the M4 (reduced speed limits for emissions). 

If nearly all the cars on our roads are electric - you will find it tough to find a petrol station, rendering tours tricky. Yes, you can pre-book petrol fill-ups via a van but what a bore that will be.

Think on about the changes ahead and support those groups trying to fend off draconian measures.

Justin 

[C8RKH]

As the number of electric vehicles rise, the number of ICE cars fall thereby reducing emissions on our roads. You will then get a "tipping point" where emissions cannot increase to breach any "environmental limits" as there will be too few ICE cars on the road to create the emissions.  At that point the "noise" will die down and I am sure the much, much smaller volume of ICE cars will continue to run and petrol will be sold as it is now. Whereas now the EV charger is at the back of the garage, in future that will be where the petrol pump will be. Petrol will be much dearer (you need volume to keep the price down) but some of that rise will be offset in a reduction in tax duty as the government will shift from taxing carbon fuels to taxing on miles driven. At the moment, we are subsidising the EV's and that will need to change to balance the tax take.

It's just an inevitable part of the future. It's all of course complete and utter bollocks and a bit like sending a wee boy out in the Netherlands to use his fingers to plug the holes appearing in the dykes.  Like the boy, we will soon run out of fingers and the problem will just manifest itself somewhere else. The real problem is there are just too many fooking people on the planet and the human race is killing it. Like COVID we have become a disease, a virus, that is slowly suffocating/drowning our host. But of course, for all these fooking tree hugging eco warriors this "real issue" is just too bloody mind blowing for them to contemplate so instead, in typical middle class head up arse fashion, they get behind a cause that makes them feel good but actually doesn't impact their nice cosy little lives.

Consumption - food, electronics, clothes, useless things, cars, global travel (of people, goods and food) etc. And population growth. If you really want to "heal the planet" then these are the things you need to reduce significantly and control.

I'm too old for any more kids (been  there, done that, got the shitty tea shirts and puked on jumpers). So that means I need to reduce consumption. Well, ha! That ain't going to happen as I like my pies and pints, and Lotus are bringing out a new car (well, I think they are. Some time. In the future. Maybe. OK, possibly. When?)

Mean time, I have got 20 -25 years to drive as much as I can in my ICE Lotus cars as it won't be until around 2040 that petrol starts to get hard to get (there will be around 30m perfectly good ICE cars still on the road in 2030 -that's a still a hell of a market to fuel!)

We stopped using coal 20 years ago. I can still get it. And still use it from time to time. Nothing tastes as good as fresh bread, toasting on a red hot coal fire and then lashed with a pack of salted butter! I'm a man of my age. My age is dying and the new one looks a bit meh to me. These days it's hard enough to determine the girls from the boys through looks alone, and the girls are harder anyway and the boys as soft as jelly (especially in the head).

[Jason is Chasing]

1 minute ago, C8RKH said:

These guys it's hard enough to determine the girls from the boys, and the girls are harder anyway and the boys as soft as jelly (especially in the head).

I laughed so hard at this, I spit my morning coffee!  

[jep]

I really enjoyed that @C8RKH.

Thought provoking times for lovers of the internal combustion engine.

Justin 

 

[yeller77]

@C8RKH if one of us ever cross the pond dividing us in our common language, all the pints are on me (and I also have a more than acceptable horde of wine)... we would get along well! 

[C8RKH]

Ha, where you based @yeller77?   You get the pints in, the ribs and wings will be on me! lol

[yeller77]

Stateside, about as far as you can get from either coast. Now enough of this love fest so all can get back to their WAGs on WTH Lotus are going to be doing going forward. :D  

[RobinB5]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Consumption - food, electronics, clothes, useless things, cars, global travel (of people, goods and food) etc. And population growth. If you really want to "heal the planet" then these are the things you need to reduce significantly and control.

The capitalist culture of repeated consumption keeps driving the money go round. New iPhone, new purchase, more materials required to generate new product, old product gets discarded (or maybe a little recycled). Same for cars. Get an EV, replace after ~3-5 years, keep that money pumping through the system to support everyone's jobs. Want to save the planet? Stop continuously raping it. Keep your old iPhone, keep your old car, buy 'new' clothes from a 2nd hand charity store. Food? I'd rather eat shit than recycle that.

Greed feeds the money go round. The money go round keeps everyone employed. We're all on a helter skelter of mutual destruction. Is there a way out? Not that anyone's been able to make work, especially not politicians. For those old enough to afford a Lotus, might as well be nihilistic about the future and let our children sort out the mess after we cark it. Unless anyone's got a better idea?

[Jcx]

Happy days eh?!

[C8RKH]

13 minutes ago, Jcx said:

Happy days eh?!

Yes. For some very happy days. For others, not so happy.

For the last 5 -7 years we've been slowly decluttering. Getting rid of all that useless shite you accumulate and realise was just a waste of money.

I do wonder what the future for Lotus will be.  A car for the drivers as electric autonomous looms on the distant horizon. So essentially a car for a dying market - quite literally if you look at all of the old farts on here!

A focus on driving involvement, handling and vehicle dynamics for drivers who just want a badge and 0-60 straight line bragging rights.

I think 2025-2030 will be the key period for the future Lotus to be shaped and at that point we'll have a clear idea about what future Lotus stands for.

 

[Barrykearley]

When will we get a government that will denounce “globalisation”, especially cheap Chinese imports that don’t last, and invest in uk based manufacturing instead. You are absolutely correct @RobinB5 in your summation of capitalism above. I’m a true capitalist - but we need to shift to a more modern responsible and sustainable model of capitalism. Brexit and Coronavirus are a fantastic tool to force this concept through imho.

[RobinB5]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I think 2025-2030 will be the key period for the future Lotus to be shaped and at that point we'll have a clear idea about what future Lotus stands for.

I wonder if level 5 autonomy will be realised by then? An on-demand pay per use model will revolutionize car usage and maybe see the demise of car ownership. Maybe no bad thing as cars spend so much time not being driven, their efficacy is shite. Having said that what would a Lotus be in a world of fully autonomous driving?  Would there be a sports mode setting that makes the car go at the speed limit all the time with as much acceleration/deceleration as the car is capable of at each speed limit change? I wonder if you'd have to pay a premium to drive in manual mode and be banned from subsequent rental if you exceeded the speed limit?

We're the last generation to benefit from the freedom our cars give us.

Rush released Red Barchetta 39 years ago, O Neil Pert, how prophetic your lyrics...

[C8RKH]

I think @RobinB5 Volvo are already now well down that path. You can currently rent a new Volvo - everything is included in one monthly price. The only thing I think you need to do is fuel it if it is ICE.

The next step will be a model where you "book" the car you want for the time you want and it just turns up, then leaves when you have finished it. The technology is there and for the time being it can  be delivered to 85% of the population by a person who then just takes the motorised scooter out of the boot and scoots off!  Some of those eScooters now have a range of 20-25 miles and of course you can always use your leg to "scoot" along to increase the range.

So, you pay say £80 per hour to have the car without cost of fuel.  Sounds like a lot but when you factor in purchase price, mileage, fuel, tax and insurance you start to realise just how much a car costs you!

£25k average car price.  8,000 miles a year at 50mpg and £6 per gallon = £960. Say £150 car tax and £350 insurance and £500 for service and incidentals. So over 3 years that would be a total outlay of £25k+ (£960*3) + (£150*3) + (£350 * 3) + (£500 *3) = £30,880.  Add in some interest for a part loan, say £2,000 and take off the PX value at 3 years of say £11,000 and that leave a 3 year cost of what, £21,800 for 24,000 miles or 91p per mile.

So, factor in say renting the car for 5 hours for a 300 mile journey = £300 for 300 miles so £1 per mile plus fuel (nowt if electric).  The figures/economics suggest it would work but boy that would make a massive difference to the economy with tens of thousands made redundant etc.

 

 

 

[RobinB5]

4 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

The figures/economics suggest it would work but boy that would make a massive difference to the economy with tens of thousands made redundant etc.

That's a struggle that's been going on since the time of the Luddites. An ongoing existential crisis that is leading to a service based economy, until such time as even those services are replaced with automated and more profitable alternatives. The last job a human will have is to program an AI that can train other AIs. After that it'll just be a matter of whether you're an Eloi or Morlock. 

[Arregueti]

Quote

Investment in Hethel - PistonHeads

I think this belongs here.

[C8RKH]

I agree @RobinB5. We do need to get back to "making things" however, a lot of what we need in the future will come from "programming systems" as opposed to whittling wood etc. We had the industrial revolution and no we have the digital revolution.

However, a lot of what we think as "essential" these days is just a nice to have. For instance, in a Lotus you can have air con. Very simple to do and a simple knob to turn to change the temperature.  However, some people think it is essential to have dual zone, or even four zone, climate control. So a hugely more complex solution that requires extra sensors, control boards (i.e. raw materials) so that somebody doesn't have to twist a knob!  We call that progress.

Our levels of consumption are being driven by our "need" to effectively automate everything or make it so easy we don't need to think about it.

I saw at the weekend that recent human evolution has sped up and children these days are being born without wisdom teeth as our food is now so processed it is easier to chew and therefore we don't need them.

I'm waiting for the study to confirm that Audi drivers have evolved to the next stage and where born without brains as they don't need one to drive an Audi and certainly don't use one when considering buying one. Even Audi's latest advertising confirms this!

So, I believe the future of Lotus is a real concern for the human race. By building cars for the drivers we will ensure that people will still be born with brains (to coordinate the four limbs you need to drive a manual Lotus), all four limbs with working hands and feet attached to connect with the main control surfaces, and fingers to "twiddle the knobs" to make the cabin hotter or colder.  

Being a Lotus owner certainly shows that you are smarter than the average bear boo boo!

[yeller77]

Indeed. Use it or lose it!

[NedaSay]

The skeleton is no more:

It only took nearly 8 years 3 different CEOs (DB, JMG, PP) and a new ownership...

[Jason is Chasing]

38 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

The skeleton is no more:

It only took nearly 8 years 3 different CEOs (DB, JMG, PP) and a new ownership...

You're speaking to my heart when you show me things like this

[scotty435]

Very impressive 

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-invest-further-in-lotus-engineering-and-hethel-site-upgrades/

[stephenwhyte]

The future is bright!😎

[mg4lotus]

@RobinB5 With regard to autonomous driving and speed limits. My satnav has and indicator for what the speed limit is on the stretch of road that I am driving. Sadly it is a couple of years old so for some roads that indicator is out of date and telling me the wrong speed. And, that is not taking into account any short term changes to the speed limit due to road works and the likes.

Systems would need to be developed and put into practice on all roads to take things like this into consideration.

If the system is faulty and your autonomous vehicle breaks a speed limit, who is to blame? Who pays the fine? What if it causes an accident?

[C8RKH]

5 hours ago, mg4lotus said:

My satnav has and indicator for what the speed limit is on the stretch of road that I am driving

Mine and my wife's DDs have that but also the front cameras recognise road signs so it "reads" the speed limit sign and informs you of changes accordingly.

The tech is there. Is available. Right now.

The law needs to be changed to catch-up but that is happening. Cameras on cars will determine blame and if a systems failure then the mfrs could be held liable as they are to an extent now.

If you modify the car without telling insurance co, and it's a factor, then like now you will be liable.

It's all coming together whether we like it or not.