Future of Lotus

[LazyDonkey]

That lovely volvo touchscreen in an evora.....mmmmm 

(sod just add lightness for a bit - it's lovely)

[TBD]

Good news, glad to see I was right all along.

But, does this mean I am now driving a Volvo?

[nerobi]

1 hour ago, NedaSay said:

The Goldstar JV was all about getting to get a foothold in China and an SUV, well somehow Proton got both. Lotus may get to use the XC40/60 underpinings to prop their own SUV. 

Do you think Lotus would go on thinking on making SUV? Maybe instead of doing that, they just help making Proton's SUV.

[Swiss380Cup]

Due to very high emission standard restrictions in China, the light is right concept of Lotus will help them reach the target... It might well be that first Lotus will help with the Proton or Geely SUV project before it creates its own..... personally I don't give a ..... about SUVs..... but I know all automobile manufacturers need one since apparently everybody loves them...... Grrrrrrrrr.... Rather give us a 450 Exige with 1'000 kgs, charge cooled, and I'll keep quiet.....

[LazyDonkey]

43 minutes ago, TBD said:

But, does this mean I am now driving a Volvo?

Embrace it - volvos are ace ! 

[NedaSay]

7 minutes ago, nerobi said:

Do you think Lotus would go on thinking on making SUV? Maybe instead of doing that, they just help making Proton's SUV.

I still believe making the SUV is key as it will allow Lotus to branch out  a bit. and generate higher volumes... Regardless of the purchase sport cars on their own only sell in the thousands so should Lotus manage to get the Elise to be the highest seller again with 3000 car per annum, Exige and Evora to sell each 2000 car per annum you get 7000 cars. Lotus would need to sell in the tens of thousands.

When it comes to the Proton SUV will be Geely based so other than fine tuning it's all there Proton does not require high performance, they need affordable solution for their main market you will not turn them into a premium car maker tomorrow, they are going to be their access brand for the Asean I believe.

Lotus expertise is about chassis tuning and lightweight materials which should come handy in China especially if Geely goes all hybrid or EV which is their goal. Lotus could help steer the group toward more aluminium and composite chassis and body components in order to offset the extra weight coming from the batteries. With Geely in the picture and a possible Volvo tie up things could change scale, the project could be global... with a package protected to comply with all major markets from the get go. Not having an SUV as a premium entity is unwise I believe. They don't cost a fortune to engineer, the return on investment is substantial and the SUV would help Lotus stand on its own two feet, instead of relying on the parent company to fund everything. It worked for Porsche and by the look of Jaguar is killing it.  Yeah sure an Exige Cup 450 would sell a hundred cars, An SUV would sell in the thousands and would help fund that Exige like nothing else could. Geely will probably want to avoid Lotus digging in their pocket every time they need cash, thus it is better to help them fund a car that will generate high volumes so that in turn this high volume car can help produce sport cars. Especially has JMG's plan was to use an updated VVA to prop all cars in the future.

Use Lotus "Updated VVA" for the chassis and use a tricked out Volvo "SPA" for powertrain integration it could be a winning combination, a very flexible and cost effective way to build cars.  Besides Lotus will need to respect CARB emissions as it is now part of a much bigger group, the easiest way to do that is more cars and yes an EV car. JMG said it himself an EV Elise won't work as it will be flawed from inception, an EV SUV  would not necessarily be, especially if they go for an all aluminium platform with an alloy/composite body. Lotus has done studies on this before and they now have access to Geely stamping facilities, for me it's a no brainer.

Last point that could be exciting as I live in North America, Lotus boutiques could feature in Volvo dealerships so  that could remedy any fear in buying such a car.  And no it would not buying a Volvo it would be driving a pretty cool and bullet proof Lotus backed by one of the best company in the business. And driving a Volvo is cool these days      

 

[PAR]

So Geely will own the makers of the heaviest cars (Volvo and black cabs) and of the lightest!

Let's hope the deal can close quickly, there are super easy wins that could turn the company profitable before any new model:

- put some cash into the business to sort out all back orders problems for parts. This is a real issue of losing potential profits and customers reputation just because they were waiting for the deal to happen

- put the cash into working capital so there are cars to show. This is one of the issues, people dont know the new models and can't even try them as there aren't enough demos out there.

- use the Volvo umbrella to distribute cars. There is no such product in the Volvo brand so absolutely no risk of cannibalisation. Obviously this is a short term fix as a dedicated network is also important and Lotus should also protect their historical dealers.

Just those three things will take 10 minutes and sell them 1000 more cars a year. In particular, the customer that will come will be the Evora 400 buyers on which margins are quite good. That also means they will need to pay special attention to the finition (i think I will send them a list of the mistakes to avoid in the 400 based in my usage of it ;-))

Volvo has been a huge success, no reason they can't make it work there as well for lotus.

[NedaSay]

Ok now it is a top gear piece but still

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/chinese-car-giant-geely-has-bought-lotus

Quote

The 2020 Elise programme includes a later V6 Exige variant, Gales confirmed. It will have a longer wheelbase than the Elise. I asked him about electrification. “Why not? Looking at the current cars, no. You add 150kg and you lose the luggage space. But I won’t exclude a mild hybrid on the next Exige. We must do it for performance reasons. It must be light, and have a good battery.”

This  is interesting considering the new context. I'll say it first, new Exige 400 using the Volvo T8 coming in 2022... any takers? 

Edited May 24, 2017 by NedaSay

[Swiss380Cup]

http://www.evo.co.uk/lotus/19108/geely-acquires-majority-stake-of-lotus-in-deal-with-proton

 

What I like best in the Evo article

Quote : "Reflecting our experience accumulated through Volvo Car’s revitalisation, we also aim to unleash the full potential of Lotus Cars and bring it into a new phase of development by expanding and accelerating the rolling out of new products and technologies.”

[nello]

My concern with this is what Geely have done to LTI the Taxi makers here in Coventry. The old Carbodies "factory" here now is tiny as all they actually do here now for the new Cab is screw the bits together to maintain its still 'British.' All the bits are manufactured in China and just bolted together here............ 

Edited May 24, 2017 by nello

[JayEmm]

A valid concern Nello. Being British made is a key part of the Lotus identity and I think the buyers would not be fooled by the "assembled in the UK" bit

[TheKevlarKid]

That's pretty much what we have now... A lot of Lotus parts are manufactured outside the UK already so I really don't see what difference will it make if they come from China or Czechoslovakia.

Edited May 24, 2017 by TheKevlarKid

[NedaSay]

4 hours ago, nello said:

My concern with this is what Geely have done to LTI the Taxi makers here in Coventry. The old Carbodies "factory" here now is tiny as all they actually do here now for the new Cab is screw the bits together to maintain its still 'British.' All the bits are manufactured in China and just bolted together here............ 

Ok so here's the deal: the Lotus bodies are made by Faurecia in France, the engine and gearbox do come from Toyota in Japan, the lights are from Hella and made in Sweden, the seats are Sparcos (on the evora) made in Italy, Elige steering wheels are by Momo in Italy and airbags are sourced from KSS in the US, tires are Michelin, Brakes are AP Racing, wheels are Rimstock.... My point is a car is a bunch of bits put together, and Lotus was always an assembler.

2 hours ago, JayEmm said:

A valid concern Nello. Being British made is a key part of the Lotus identity and I think the buyers would not be fooled by the "assembled in the UK" bit

Really!? Seriously! Have you checked the Rolls Royce Goodwood factory lately? They receive the body, the engine, the loom, the electronic and the dash from BMW Germany... for all intent and purposes the only thing taking place in the UK is final assembly (painting & interior stitching and Q.A) ... It is the same in Crew at Bentley? People don't seem to care provided the bits bear the flying B or the spirit of ecstasy.

Now in my opinion Lotus jobs are safe because Geely are buying an expertise and also a bit of history and prestige, They want the brand, they want the company and the Hethel site. JMG made the tough call to make people redundant, the company right now is as fit as can be workforce wise. Geely has definitely seen that already. Lotus cars are purchased because they are not just assembled but also designed, and engineered in Hethel, England by people who know their stuff and have been doing this for nearly 70 years.      

[JayEmm]

I have driven BMWs designed and built in Germany.

I have driven BMWs designed and built in North America.

They are far from the same.

For now I am positive, as this secures *a* future for Lotus. I hope and trust that someone at Geely knows how to handle them properly.

[Bibs]

They didn't guess at this, due diligence by Geely has been ongoing for a considerable amount of time. 

[theelanman]

10 hours ago, NedaSay said:

It is the same in Crew at Bentley?

as you put a question mark Im presuming you mean

is it the same at Bentley?........

I can answer that...NO......all handmade in Crewe......including the motorsport stuff

[jonwat]

What Lotus needs from Geely according to Autocar.  

[Swiss380Cup]

17 hours ago, nello said:

My concern with this is what Geely have done to LTI the Taxi makers here in Coventry. The old Carbodies "factory" here now is tiny as all they actually do here now for the new Cab is screw the bits together to maintain its still 'British.' All the bits are manufactured in China and just bolted together here............ 

Maybe, but already a significant portion of Lotus parts come from abroad..... so I don't think you'll see much of a difference....

[Bravo73]

2 hours ago, theelanman said:

is it the same at Bentley?........

I can answer that...NO......all handmade in Crewe......including the motorsport stuff

It is essentially the same at Bentley however. The cars might be hand assembled in Crewe but the majority of the parts (engines, shells, mechanical bits etc etc) arrive in VW branded boxes from Germany and elsewhere. Like Rolls-Royce, it's only really the interior bits (wood and leather) that are made in the factory. Although the wood itself and the skins come from elsewhere around the world.

[theelanman]

@Bravo73 the engines are most definitely made in crewe.....

Ive been in the engine shop.......

I doubt any car manufacturer has every bit of every car made on site.......youd need foundries, smelting plant, plastic plants, fields of cows.......etc......

[Bravo73]

The old V8s were. The W12s arrive from Germany. 

(I've also been around the factory. It was a few years ago though). 

 

I stand corrected. ☺️ VW Group moved W12 engine production to the Crewe plant in 2014. My factory visit was about 5 years before that. 

[theelanman]

my mate is the director of Bentley Motor Sport (usually seen collecting the team trophy.....like at LM2003).....

and he has all the W12s and W16s (which are built for Bugatti) built on site in Crewe........he designed the engine so oversees all works and development works

anyway...thats another motor manufacturer.......

we'll have to wait and see what happens with Lotus.......

its not like Lotus build the engines or the body or most of the other bit.......

its already just an assembly plant......

this has been the case all the way through with Lotus.......bit from everyone else,..........just put together in such a way........

coventry climax engine in the mk14 Elite......Fire Pump....

lotus twincam.......bottom end ford 105e from a ford anglia

all the bits that bolt on the body........door handles from a maxi in the esprit......door handle from an austin 1100 for the 60's elan.....

etc etc etc

[nello]

Yes I know theres always been a major element of assembly with components from other manufacturers and countries (I used to work on the track at Ryton!) but with LTI the works are now literally half the plant they were. I'm just not convinced Geely see the brand in the same lights/markets that I hoped someone would.......

[LazyDonkey]

Is there any evidence that they'd be worse than DRB though?     Everyone was really worried when that deal was annouced and Lotus was in a much worse state than they are now. 

As others have said they haven't bought Lotus to ruin it . 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by LazyDonkey

[TBD]

Anyway you look at it this is all good news:

• Geely is separating Lotus from Proton, making it an independent entity
• Geely is taking the majority stake in Lotus, not Proton. This would never be the case if they wanted to run the company down.
• Gales has made Lotus profitable on a cash level, Geely will bring the investment money for the future

Funny enough, this may be major upshift that good old Danny was dreaming of, but now with an experienced manager (Gales) and an owner with serious money in his pockets (Geely).