Future of Lotus

[Ccd]

Lotus is not likely to  recoup its investment in US homologation anytime soon.  Estimates are that Lotus sold around 40 Evora for all of 2018 to date.  Looking at car sites, there are a number of 2017s available with low or no miles, not to mention the 2018s on the market.   Lotus did indicate that the GT 410 Sport would be in the US market and that would make sense as there should be no issues concerning homologation.  However....if you are having difficulty selling the Evora 400, it’s not likely that a model probably $10,000 more expensive is likely to do any better.  Interestingly, when the car was announce for the US market, Lotus did not provide pricing and as far as I can tell, there is no price announced for the US market for the GT 410 Sport.

The sceptic in me wonders whether the GT410 Sport will actually make it to US shores.  I think Geely is focused on 1 or 2 SUVs and a new Esprit.  Once those cars have been developed, we may then see a serious push into the US market, but not before then.

[NedaSay]

Yes Lotus does have a present to take care of. And it is a bit messy with North American dealers really hurting right now. The Evora is a tough sell in the current context, and even though they now have financing and leasing solutions, the fact that you cannot get your own spec and only order what is available on dealers lot and the lack of marketing support from Lotus HQ, sales are underwhelming. Lotus needs to push the car but it is almost like they want the current product to die a slow death and something in me suggest that they may want to winnow the dealer pool in order to get some affiliated Volvo dealers in the picture when the new products come into view. Which is a bit stupid in my opinion with barely 50 dealers for all of North America Lotus and Geely can afford to keep all their current dealers and add another hundred Volvo affiliate. 

Also not having an entry model (Elise and Exige) is hurting right now, it's been hurting for a while... I really hope that one of the two sport cars is actually an Exige that will be able to "play" the Elise role at the entry level.  Something a lot of people can actually afford via financing, with some creature comfort for daily driveability and fun for spirited drives and trackability.  

[Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh]

1 hour ago, NedaSay said:

Lotus needs to push the car but it is almost like they want the current product to die a slow death

I personally think the same, I never saw any Evora advertising in German or other EU car magazines, nothing, just recently the US social media team doing a better job promoting this car than everybody in the EU …
For me the Evora is the most complete Lotus car. A car similar to the Esprit. And with the advent of a E supercar the Evora might get into the focus of more new customers too? Logic does tell that. Those who look for complete car may like the Evora too? And yes an Esprit above would even more nice 🙂

 

[2011 Chrome Orange]

Making any new car(s) available for sale here (US) is meaningless when we can't get parts to fix the broken ones we already have. How a company can expect to sell cars that they don't support is mind-boggling to me.

My opinion (worth nothing really) is that it's going to be a major hurdle to sell any additional cars in the US due to the lacking  parts supply and availability.

[NedaSay]

@Bibs ...

@Chad, which part are you in need of?

 

Companies that put out product they cannot fix or don't provide timely support for... The names of Tesla comes to mind, also Maserati, Pagani, Jaguar...

 

15 hours ago, Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh said:

I personally think the same, I never saw any Evora advertising in German or other EU car magazines, nothing, just recently the US social media team doing a better job promoting this car than everybody in the EU …
For me the Evora is the most complete Lotus car. A car similar to the Esprit. And with the advent of a E supercar the Evora might get into the focus of more new customers too? Logic does tell that. Those who look for complete car may like the Evora too? And yes an Esprit above would even more nice 🙂

 

Until recently Lotus had no money whatsoever to advertise or promote or do any PR. Money should start coming in now but if they decide willingly not to advertise the car that is a different issue. 

[Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh]

17 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Until recently Lotus had no money whatsoever to advertise or promote or do any PR.

If you just can not do that - you are stone dead. If somebody wants to sell sports cars PR and advertising is as important as the product´s drive style. Because if you are not known and admired nobody can or will buy. 
Lotus cars drive well, so it should be fairly easy … and hopefully it works in the future 🙂

 

 

 

[Ccd]

Here is what I would do in North America and frankly what Lotus is probably doing.  The Evora is being left to die on the vine along with the dealers that currently sell the car.  So few cars are being sold in North America that there is little downside to doing this.  Lotus sales will be shifted to select Volvo dealerships and Lotus will be re-introduced into the North America market once the new Esprit is ready.  After the Esprit, a re-vamped and more expensive Evora will be slotted under the Esprit.  After that will come the new Lotus SUV.  The last car to be revised will be the Elise/Exige and my bet is that only one of them will be revised.  Probably the Exige as it is the more expensive car.   This is all part of a big move upmarket by Lotus.

Right now, it is hard to make the case for buying an Evora in North America.  

[AK70]

So, guess we all wait for..  When will Lotus inform about their strategy, model line-up and timeplan?

No other media has picked up on the 2mio Hypercar story, nor did Lotus comment on anything.

The 130 job vacancies are still open since October with seemingly no change. 

Plans for a couple of new buildings in Hethel and some new Instagram picture, but that's it more or less? 

Not impressed so far, but I better shut-t-f-up and enjoy driving my marvelous Evora S 😉
That always works...

 

[NedaSay]

Lets not hold our breath... When Geely bought Volvo it went quiet for almost 4 years... They took care of business by having mild updates on the line up and sending Volvo-Polestar compete on the WTCC stage to keep the brand active in the media but other than that it was a whole lot of nothing ; until Volvo unveiled the then new XC90 ; after that Volvo and Geely started communicating and the product release got hectic.

So possibly it will be more of the same for Lotus, and other than the announced GT430 American spec unveil, that got pushed back yet again... There's nothing rushing out of the pipeline. At this point I wonder if Lotus will even show up at next year's Geneva Autoshow, at this point in time, Polestar is the only Geely brand that has confirmed its presence, Volvo is taking a pass and so does Lynk & Co. Registrations are open and there is be plenty of premium spaces available  if they decide to attend as the number of car companies not going to Geneva next year is almost worrisome.

As for the 130 job vacancies posted on the website, I doubt we should read too much into that, Lotus has never been great at keeping the website up to date... Some positions may have been filled already. 

[geartox]

On 29/11/2018 at 19:43, 2011 Chrome Orange said:

Making any new car(s) available for sale here (US) is meaningless when we can't get parts to fix the broken ones we already have. How a company can expect to sell cars that they don't support is mind-boggling to me.

My opinion (worth nothing really) is that it's going to be a major hurdle to sell any additional cars in the US due to the lacking  parts supply and availability.

same thing here.

[NedaSay]

Now available online for those who haven't seen/heard of it yet: 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/lotus-plans-£2m-electric-hypercar

That piece was not picked up by any other outlet.

Also:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/new-cars/opinion-porsche-shows-lotus-way

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/electric-lotuses-arent-lotuses

Not much is really new, Lotus taking a piece of the Porsche playbook we've known that already, I guess it will all be in the reception of future models. The piece on non Lotus that are really electric Lotus is interesting and they managed to forget the Dodge Circuit EV  prototype from  2008: 

[KAS-118]

Here's another article on the 'Hypercar' https://paultan.org/2018/12/06/lotus-to-produce-new-rm10-million-electric-hypercar/

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

This story has finally been re-published on Haymarket's soon-to-be-sold other outlet, namely Pistonheads. Although it tells us nothing new, there are several comments on the subsequent forum which lend credence to it not being just Autocar pie-in-the-sky, but a fully-sanctioned Geely project.

This is the most interesting contribution from a poster so far:

"I sat in a two hour engineering meeting about this today. Drawings, pics and everything. Had I not done so I, too, would have laughed it off. The picture is nothing like it, though, and it's not strictly a 100% Lotus project either."

[Ccd]

What concerns me about a Lotus hypercar is that it feels like a “me too” strategy.  We have seen hypercars before.  What will make this car different???  Lotus has a reputation for light, raw, driver-focused cars.  What happens when Lotus builds a hypercar like everyone else and then introduces cars that might be light, but will not likely be nearly as raw and driver focused as current models?  If this happens, what will distinguish Lotus in the marketplace?  Merely being light will not be enough as there are certainly light cars on the market: McLaren, Ferrari,etc already make light cars.  I don’t pretend to know the answer to this question.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Ccd
Should have said hypercar, not supercar

[NedaSay]

The Autocar piece is now getting picked up by a few outlets:

http://www.thedrive.com/news/25348/lotus-developing-2-6-million-electric-hypercar-concept-coming-in-2019-report

On 07/12/2018 at 08:39, Ccd said:

What concerns me about a Lotus hypercar is that it feels like a “me too” strategy.  We have seen hypercars before.  What will make this car different???  Lotus has a reputation for light, raw, driver-focused cars.  What happens when Lotus builds a hypercar like everyone else and then introduces cars that might be light, but will not likely be nearly as raw and driver focused as current models?  If this happens, what will distinguish Lotus in the marketplace?  Merely being light will not be enough as there are certainly light cars on the market: McLaren, Ferrari,etc already make light cars.  I don’t pretend to know the answer to this question.

What would make it different, well for starters it will be a Lotus.

Lotus is now the ballerina of arguably one of - if not - the lead carmaker from China and they are likely to throw everything they have had it. And if we compare 2018 Geely to what it was back in 2010 when they acquired Volvo... Well it is kind of scary.  They were a dwarf back then and they are now a giant in the making, they rank 3rd on their home market which is nowadays the biggest of them all. Their Target was 1.6M cars sold under the Geely brand this civil year on their home soil, as of November they havd reached 1.4M cars and the market is slowing down, so under the Geely brand they may miss the target but not by much. However add Lynk and Co's numbers to the mix and they are pretty much there.

I thinks Geely, Volvo and Polestar will provide Lotus with everything they have and I mean everything.  This thing is a declaration of intent it may be a very limited run of 25 cars, may not even be seen outside China and the UK, may be a pure track toy and/or possibly will could be make compliant with the new Hypercar regulations for Le Mans 24, I don't know....

However lets remember this: the Evora 414E was measured at 1759kg back in 2012, the Mclaren P1 was 1547kg in 2014... the Koenigsegg Regera 1470kg in 2015.  The new Rimac Ctwo is even heavier being a pure EV at about 1900kg.

Well this Lotus hypercar, if reel, is going to be unveiled in 2019 or 2020 and light-weighting has been in full effect at lotus for the past few years. Even with a big old lump of Lithium ion or lithium metal battery, the amount of carbon fiber for the core chassis, the body, and possibly titanium front and rear subframes should make do. It may be yet again the lightest in class. We know they have dealt with the tech before, Lotus is familiar with it all and is certainly very adept at being an assembler. They've always had to make do with fairly average spec parts before, for the first time since the death of Colin Chapman if not ever in the life of the brand this car is going to have everything bespoke. The best car Lotus can do with the best Geely Group has to offer and that is rather a lot.

And battery tech is progressing at a prodigious pace: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/lithium-metal-battery-research-could-triple-ev-ranges/

I'm going to be cautiously positive about this one if it is reel, then Lotus as assembled a new team to take charge of the sales and marketing of luxury goods so I'm going to assume they can deliver the experience needed to convince people that car is worth the ridiculous amount of money Autocar mentioned. 

Also I may be a delusional optimist but better that than the overly pessimist.

Edited December 9, 2018 by NedaSay

[Ccd]

NedaSay:

Time will tell.  If the hypercar rumors proves real, I will make one prediction: Lotus is moving MUCH further upmarket than I expected. If Lotus starts with a hypercar introduction as its first new model, don’t expect ANY Lotus to start under $200,000 and also don’t expect any of the current models to continue.

Lotus will be trying to take its place next to McLaren, Ferrari and Lambo.  

[MrDangerUS]

On 24 May 2017, Chinese company, Geely announced that it will take a 51% controlling stake in Lotus and thus became the owner of the automobile manufacturer. The remaining 49% were acquired by Etika Automotive **.

At the 2010 Paris Motor Show, Lotus announced five new models to be introduced over the next five years: Their intention was to replace the Elise with an entirely different model, as well as to introduce two entirely new sports coupes, which would have been known as the Elite and the Elan, a new sports saloon, the Eterne, and a modern interpretation of the Esprit super car.

It became apparent in July 2012 that the firm's financial difficulties had made this plan impossible to implement, and initially all but the Esprit project were cancelled. Subsequently, the Esprit project was also cancelled.

In 2011, Lotus revealed this as the Lotus Ethos, a plug-in hybrid car based on the EMAS concept from its parent company Proton, and likely to be primarily built by Proton in Malaysia. This car has also been cancelled.

Lotus CEO at the time Jean Marc Gales confirmed in 2017 that development of an SUV is currently under way, after the company was acquired by the Chinese automotive manufacturer, Geely.

Plenty of smoke, but no fire and no cigar, either.

Meanwhile, McLaren has hi-jacked the Lotus market and many talented engineers

Where the he!!  Lotus is going?  China? Making cars or ... mopeds?

Any one has any clue?

 

FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geely

______________________________________________________________________________________________

**  Etika Strategi Sdn. Bhd. is a holding company, which through its subsidiaries, operates automotive, banking and postal services, property, and asset and construction businesses in Malaysia. The company was founded in 1982 and is based in Malaysia.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-23/chinese-billionaire-says-lotus-sports-car-may-be-made-in-china

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by MrDangerUS

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Keep up at the back.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

On 12/12/2018 at 22:37, MrDangerUS said:

Meanwhile, McLaren has hi-jacked the Lotus market and many talented engineers

Where the he!!  Lotus is going?  China? Making cars or ... mopeds?

Any one has any clue?

 

Maybe they should pool resources on the supercars.... unlikely I grant you, but I'm looking forward to seeing what 2019 brings for both companies especially in the hybrid/electric market. 

[NedaSay]

McLaren and Lotus pooling resources... That is very very unlikely. In F1, both companies were at each other's throat on track and behind the scenes, for ages in the 70's, 80's and 90's. On the car market, McLaren has been poaching Lotus talent for years, but so have Aston Martin and Jaguar.... Yet Lotus have collaborated with every single company except for McLaren, at least overtly.

Now Lotus do not need to work with McLaren at all. They have been upping their carbon fiber game, working with the likes of Prodrive.  They still have a depth of talent, and more than ever they have access to the tech and funding the need. And in terms of resources available they are now tooling up Hethel but also a new R&D facility and a new Engineering centre in China, so I guess we have to add these to the resources, they already have at the sister- companies : Emerald Automotive Design and LEVC which are both based in Coventry ; CEVT, Volvo and Polestar in Gotenburg, all of that plus  Geely's 4 design centres and 6 Engineering Centres worldwide.... All of which they can pull and pool imput and resources from.

Lotus is about to change, we may like it, love it, hate it or dread it but the company  is changing behind the scene and Geneva 2019 will be the first indicator of where the company is going.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by NedaSay

[scotty435]

Wow well said, some one being positive, just what the brand needs and no political views, which makes a nice change on this forum just lately. Like you looking forward to what’s looks like a new beginning for Lotus.

[Frickin_idiot]

I thought Geneva May be a little too early for further, substantial information 

[NedaSay]

Actually for the new sports cars it is perfect timing if the cars' release really is 2020.

[Spinney]

Lotus have always had the ability to produce a new car after a relatively short gestation period. Supercharge that with the resources they now have access to and I’m sure Geneva 2019 is the perfect time to give the public a taste of things to come in 2020. As I said above, I’m very excited about it. 👍

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

15 hours ago, NedaSay said:

McLaren and Lotus pooling resources... That is very very unlikely. In F1, both companies were at each other's throat on track and behind the scenes, for ages in the 70's, 80's and 90's. On the car market, McLaren has been poaching Lotus talent for years, but so have Aston Martin and Jaguar.... Yet Lotus have collaborated with every single company except for McLaren, at least overtly.

Now Lotus do not need to work with McLaren at all. They have been upping their carbon fiber game, working with the likes of Prodrive.  They still have a depth of talent, and more than ever they have access to the tech and funding the need. And in terms of resources available they are now tooling up Hethel but also a new R&D facility and a new Engineering centre in China, so I guess we have to add these to the resources, they already have at the sister- companies : Emerald Automotive Design and LEVC which are both based in Coventry ; CEVT, Volvo and Polestar in Gotenburg, all of that plus  Geely's 4 design centres and 6 Engineering Centres worldwide.... All of which they can pull and pool imput and resources from.

Lotus is about to change, we may like it, love it, hate it or dread it but the company  is changing behind the scene and Geneva 2019 will be the first indicator of where the company is going.

 

 

Ha.... well I wasn't being serious but I can see similarities with the 2 companies, just differences in budget, available funds.... up to now. Exciting times ahead at Hethel, they've got a bit of catching up to do but it's all good provided the new owners respect what Lotus is all about and don't focus too much on SUV's!