Future of Lotus

[Smapmap]

Looking at the blurb on various sites it woudln't surprise me if they get somewhere between 1,000 -> 1,500kg as the interior will be kept to a minimum, and has a carbon tub - suspect the weight will be largely down to the batteries and electric motors. With a 1000bhp on tap this would destroy pretty much everything on the market. Can't wait to put down my £500 deposit ;)

[Bee]

Weight-wise, the Rimac (why do I keep wanting to say 'Immac!?!) C 2 and Pininfarina Battista are coming in at around 1950kg so you'd hope Lotus would be aiming to lop a decent chunk off of that figure in order to be lightest in class - 1750-1850kg perhaps? 

[Smapmap]

Wonder how it will handle if it's nearly 2 tonnes!!?? Not very Lotus DNA 🤨

[Likuid]

Batteries are heavy, but the good news is that batteries can be placed to lower center of gravity and distribute weight better, so my guess is that its most likely going to handle well.

[harrry]

https://www.evo.co.uk/lotus/22552/lotus-type-130-hypercar-detailed-to-form-basis-for-the-next-generation-of-new-sports

 

Some interesting info there

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Embarrassing that a performance car publication like Evo thinks that the Evora is the last new model produced by Lotus. Exige V6, 3-11? As for the Type 130 being under 1000kg? .... here’s hoping.

[PAR]

Under 1000kgs without the batteries, like weighing the cars without fuel Right? 😂😂

[Julian73]

7 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Embarrassing that a performance car publication like Evo thinks that the Evora is the last new model produced by Lotus. Exige V6, 3-11? As for the Type 130 being under 1000kg? .... here’s hoping.

At a million plus Euro's does its weight really matter.

[Julian73]

8 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Embarrassing that a performance car publication like Evo thinks that the Evora is the last new model produced by Lotus. Exige V6, 3-11? As for the Type 130 being under 1000kg? .... here’s hoping.

Wasn't the Evora GT430 the latest new model.

[PAR]

Latest on that account would be the GT410 then

[Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh]

A supercar (what ever) is a good idea to get brand awareness … a very important first step. But then I´d like to see more than a small GT4 for China. It will be important that they show their product ideas to challenge the sports car market early.

 

[Frickin_idiot]

Agree fully reference brand awareness.

[TBD]

12 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Embarrassing that a performance car publication like Evo thinks that the Evora is the last new model produced by Lotus. Exige V6, 3-11? As for the Type 130 being under 1000kg? .... here’s hoping.

The Evora remains the last fully new model designed by Lotus. The Exige V6 and 3-11 are basically still derivatives of the Elise with a new rear subframe (and engine).

[mdavies]

I've had some criticism for being less than enthusiastic in my reaction to the paragraph quoted from The Times on Lotus' plans. My reasons are multi-faceted, but one aspect, adding to the mentions above about battery capacity and, importantly, weight, are illustrated by the article below.

Yes, there is massive research on-going by many organisations into battery technology,  covering fundamental electrochemistry, new materials (graphene, anyone?) and combinations of different established materials.  (I have a little non-expert knowledge of some of it.) Apart from raw energy capacity, there are considerations of battery life under charge/discharge cycling, recharge time, temperature management and of course safety.  For very high performance machinery, current technology can provide bursts of energy drawn from on-board super-capacitors (near instantaneous bursts of current in and out, but of very limited capacity compared with batteries, then "recharged" from the battery) but the total energy available - and so the time/length of running and performance - depends on the battery carried.  And accelerating more mass takes more force - back to school days!  

Perhaps the present optimal performance is  represented by Formula E ?  Adequate for the new hypercar?  I would have been far happier to see a hybrid of some form, drawing from Formula 1 approaches.

Some issues re ordinary vehicles, very far from hypercars, are addressed  in this Reuters article. 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-autoshow-shanghai-electric-insight/the-uphill-road-battery-limitations-to-test-chinas-electric-vehicle-ambitions-idUKKCN1RS06T

 

[mdavies]

As a PS to the above,  I expected Rimac to be mentioned. I know nothing of it bar what Google throws up. I find 1914 HP and:

"120kWh battery pack containing 6,960 lithium manganese nickel cells. Fully-charged, these are said to be good for a daily-driving range of 400 miles, or two full laps of the Nürburgring at max power."

I've no basis for questioning that endurance statement, but I find it surprising.

1914 HP =>  1427KW 

A battery of 120 kW Hour => 160 HP Hour.   So for an hour's driving (allow for getting home?!) the average HP used can only be 160/1427 = 8.4% of that maximum.  Perhaps enough for a steady speed, perhaps quite high, depending on rolling resistance and aero drag.

But like some acceleration too - the sort to demonstrate a hypercar in action? Say using half max power ?  (Actual acceleration depends on the overall weight of course.) That will cut the endurance dramatically. For 10 mins at half power: 1427/2 for 1/6 hour => 119 kW Hour.  The battery capacity - so flat. If fully charged to start with!  OK, I expect quite decent  thrills with far less than 10 minutes of accelerating and at less than 50% max power, but hope I've illustrated  my concern.

If I'm wrong, education and correction please!

[Dan E]

I have to say and I am pretty sure I haven’t commented on this thread before, I think a hyper car is the right thing, I am amazed at the amount of people who have absolutely no knowledge of Lotus, the older ones are always surprised that they are still going, the younger lot have no idea who they are. I even talk to “car people” who have never heard of the Evora. Tragically! They need something to get them not only in the motoring press but on the 6 o’clock news, and first ever British electric hyper car surely that will happen? On that note though it must be brilliant and lightweight or lighter than the completion and handle like a Lotus. 

But I promise you 95% of them know the Bugatti Veyron (Not its heritage though) I have only ever seen one of them on the road going through the Limehouse link many years ago and spending a fair bit of time driving in London you would think I would have seen more. It’s marketing pure and simple and I do believe that Geely do know what they are doing. 

On the Rimac the only thing I know is it must have a 6 star Euro NCAP rating, it’s certainly where I would want to be rolling down a hill 😂

 

[mdavies]

Danny,  "where I would want to be rolling down a hill".  I like it!  😀  Expect you noted my comments above are about a wholly battery powered car, not the Hyper bit as such.  Though I'd have preferred Super to Hyper, even top end Super, but something more real world.  But probably I'm thinking about the wrong part of the real world now, not Geely's vision!

 

[Dan E]

@mdavies to be fair I read all of these threads this morning, so being oldish  (i have no short term memory) and having spent 10 hours driving to Stockport and back today and not seeing a single Lotus, I started thinking “we” need something! 

So it wasn’t directed at anything or anyone! Mainly because i didn’t think about the previous posts 😂

This, in my opinion, is getting the best, most amazing, blue collar (subjective agreed)  engineering company on to the world stage. Anyone ever asks me why Lotus, it’s because they are British, they have always been ahead of the curve with no money and they took on everyone. 

Win the lottery it would be a S Class Coupe Amg 63 in blue with cream and no blanked off buttons and the rest of the cars would be Lotus. Oh and a Speedster for the wife 😂

 

 

[mdavies]

Better say before anyone else that in the simple calculation above I copied the average HP fraction numbers wrongly from my calculator.  The 8.4% result is correct, done in either kW or HP, but carelessly I copied one number in each unit.  Apologies, but at least I wrote the result correctly!  Too late to edit.

[au-yt]

I'm with the hybrid side of technology as from an article Ive read somewhere the average street at this point in time can only support 3 Tesla's and getting infrastructure in countries like Australia will take years. The only reliable intercity journey here is Sydney to Melbourne (800+ks)

LOTUS have teamed up with Williams and the system they designed for the C-X75 is what I would like to see,

I was at street drinks last Sunday, a woman finding out the I owned Lotus's she said arn't they those little things from years ago why would you own one of them, She was very surprised to find out what they made now and I have two well one is a Chaterham

I not sure the headline car will achieve all they hope. to the motoring interested people yes to the greater community no. and they will struggle with a 4WD until the name is established.

[C8RKH]

9 hours ago, au-yt said:

I'm with the hybrid side of technology as from an article Ive read somewhere the average street at this point in time can only support 3 Tesla's and getting infrastructure in countries like Australia will take years.

It's not just in Australia that the infrastructure required will take years. Also, the cost is hugely prohibitive as most sub-stations and huge chunks of the energy grid will need upgrading to cope with demand.

In the UK, we have very high housing density levels. Most towns and cities still have terraced houses on narrow streets where parking is not guaranteed for home owners and is at a premium. How you going to charge electric vehicles in that scenario?  People usually side track the discussion at that point to induction loops in the road etc. OK great but 2 major problems (1) how much will it cost to install tens of thousands of them in roads that will need to be dug up and repaired and (2) how are you going to track usage and charge the owners for their use?

If you look at the adverts for all electric from the likes of BMW (i3), Tesla et al they all show expensive and trendy wall charging units installed in nice, clean, spacious garages attached to nice, clean, spacious middle/upper middle class homes in the suburbs etc.  This is not the reality for an all electric vehicle future for large, busy, towns and cities where space for street furniture and parking is at a premium, and also where that street furniture is an easy target for vandals and scammers.

This is why I truly believe that all electric is not the future. it is, and will be, a transition technology that will be superseded within the next 10 years by some form of hybrid based either on hydrocarbon or hydrogen fuel sources with electric regenerating backup.

[ramjet]

That seems a bit counterintuitive. We are on petrol now. Move to petrol/electric to full electric, to then go back(?) to fuel cell(?)/electric.

I would have thought, looking at those three, that electric would be the end goal?

Unless something drastic happens, my wife will keep her 1.5ltr turbocharged Skoda, I'll keep my Holden Rodeo dual cab (with what I swear is a close ratio gearbox). My children may see themselves buying electric or whatever somewhere down the track.

I don't think any change like that is going to happen with me in the time I have left on this planet.

I'm just hoping I'm not here for the Wall-E outcome. (those that have little children or grandchildren will know what I am talking about)

[au-yt]

22 minutes ago, ramjet said:

I don't think any change like that is going to happen with me in the time I have left on this planet.

I'm just hoping I'm not here for the Wall-E outcome. (those that have little children or grandchildren will know what I am talking about)

Your Wall-E comment is spot- on, and as Aus is in grips of a Federal Election, with Laughable comments by Bill Shorten,  I don’t think any Polly has their head around the issue. 

I visited Norway in September 17 and in a small village I stumbled on an electric car charging station with three different type charging units and there lies another issue is there an adaptor for different cars.

 

[ramjet]

So WHY didn't all the carmakers get together, or better still, all the USELESS governments in the world, instead of taxing you for taking your petrol car into London Central, for example, fine the carmakers if they didn't all provide identical charging sockets in their cars? Or at a minimum, provide you with the necessary adaptor to plug into the governments 'one-type' infrastructure? All music companies in the world did it with MIDI, but cars? Nup.

Would have made the shift to all electric cars at least a bit more palatable.

Sorry about that.

Back on topic.

[Advantage]

Actually, your view about mergers is shared by Aston Martin CEO, Andy Palmer. Although, his reasons for them doing so vary slightly from your suggestion.

Autocar link