General Election - 8 June 2017

[Chillidoggy]

It was the usual EU thing to allow competition in the market. If anyone has stuck their fingers up to it, I would have said the French, but who knows?

[C8RKH]

Was only last year that the RMT Union was using the EU's rail directives on competition to support Brexit vote.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/as-eu-imposes-rail-privatisation--rmt-says-vote-to-leave/

And typically, as ever, the UK plays by the rules and is usually the first mover or one of the first - rail, energy, water, etc....

The rest of Europe, including the French and Germans who so support the EU movement drag their heals, find loopholes, or do nothing. And then they wonder why we get eventually get hacked off and leave! A lot of time the UK government of the time is blamed, when all they did was the right thing under the EU Directives. Go figure.....

 

[C8RKH]

From the BBC.

"On its utilities nationalisation plans, it said it would exchange government bonds for shares in the companies - which would mean extra borrowing - but, since profits currently used to pay dividends would be used instead to pay interest on those bonds, there would be "no net cost" to the exchequer."

 

So no new net cost but huge extra borrowing with dividends used to pay the interest. That's akin to an interest only mortgage. At some point you need to pay the original capital back. They have not got a clue.  Their answer is to just stick it on the never never and let future generations foot the bill.

They also say nothing of the billions that the state would then need to cough up for the capital projects needed.

This is delusional politics. To say this manifesto is fully funded with huge holes like this. Or am I missing something here?

[Chillidoggy]

"Government Bonds".

Paid for by whom?

[C8RKH]

They will expect the private sector to buy the bonds. They seem to forget that the bondholders will look for a guaranteed return on their investment and it will all be underwritten by the UK taxpayer.

Easy isn't it!

[clivef38]

Once we are out of the EU we can sort out what we want. Then it's going to be interesting. Glad i'm an old fart but feel sorry for my kids and grand kids. Shame about my pension that was f***ck in 2008. That's why i am still working full time from 7.30 am to 4.30 pm 5 days a week. at 66 for at least untill 70.

[oilmagnet477]

Whether Govt owned or in the Private sector, the problem with the:

NHS/Rail network/Water/Electricity etc etc *Delete as appropriate

Is the continual lack of investment that is required simply to maintain the status quo - never mind move forward.

Neither system has historically delivered the perfect solution but at least a system that is in principle funded by the end users (who constantly whinge about fare hikes) should in theory be more transparent.

It could almost be a microcosm of all that is wrong with our Society at large today.

Everyone claims to be in favour of delivering an ever enlarging commitment BUT no one EVER wants to pay more to fund it.

Labours' claim that 'the rich' should all pay 'a little more' is a joke. If a single earner household with a wage earner on £150k, with a non working spouse and 2 kids in private education, has to bare the cost of what is described in the manifesto, they will be significantly impacted:

£80k-£122,999 - an additional 5% tax = £2150

£123,000 - £150,000 an additional 10% = £2700

20% VAT on 2 x £15k private school fees = £6k

So that alone = an immediate loss of £10,850

However 'well off' people are perceived to be - do these people not appreciate that this strata of earners do not suddenly have £10k plus that they can afford to lose, without there being a significant impact down the line?

This money is therefore not available to support the 'real' economy.

I wonder if Labour have factored in 600,000 kids returning to the state system in their costing to provide free school meals to ALL Primary School kids.

As an ex School Governor - the policy has always had massive failings, with many 'poorer' families refusing to claim for free school meals, feeling that there is some sort of stigma attached.

Labours 'policy' to get round this is to give everyone free meals up to year 6 - irrespective of need.

I'll be voting Labour on June 9th for sure now!!!

[Chillidoggy]

11 hours ago, C8RKH said:

They will expect the private sector to buy the bonds. They seem to forget that the bondholders will look for a guaranteed return on their investment and it will all be underwritten by the UK taxpayer.

Easy isn't it!

 

Those of us old enough to remember nationalised companies will be thinking twice before taking a share in them.

[C8RKH]

By private sector that will be the banks, insurance companies, pension funds and investment funds.  The latter two also being the ones that currently own most of the UK water sector so good luck with that! - we're going to take away what you have then expect you to invest in our bonds so we can do it! ha. Typical Labour pie in the sky thinking.

[clivef38]

So my pension is going to be based on the government stats. Yeah that will be the lowest numbers and i can wave goodbye to the winter fuel payout. I'm glad i worked all my life since leaving school at fifteen . And still working. On the estate i live on there are lots of single mums that seem to not have a bad life. Sorry Mr Grumpy.

[clivef38]

Is this the grey vote down the pan for Mrs May.

[pete]

Doubt it

[C8RKH]

I think the better off pensioners would see this as May being prudent.

If May had said those on highest tax had to pay for prescriptions and GP visits I'd of been happy with that. We need to think differently.

A little can go a long way.

[oilmagnet477]

*Spoiler alert*

Am I alone in thinking that we've got it totally wrong?

Not wanting to appear callous but we simply cannot afford the kind of social care and pension commitments that we currently aspire to.

Just seen a dementia sufferer on the news - care costs of £60-100k PA

As Clive points out, we are targetting tax £ in the wrong direction. In a nation where the large majority of people are animal lovers and wouldn't hesittate to put a lovely old dog out of its misery, we are happy to keep people alive who are in a vegetative state. Ask yourself who benefits from this? Personally, as soon as I start to lose my faculties I'm driving my Elite off Beachy Head at top speed.

I'm all for fit and healthy people keeping working for as long as possible as it is proven to help folk in having a purpose and reason to keep going (think Prince Phillip and others with a similar attitude). However, I'd much rather people had the choice. It amazes me how many peole who have had personal pensions destroyed by Gordon Brown's tax grab. This was particularly parnitious given that it was retrospective - a really nasty tactic.

In a week whre we have seen the demise of the most hideous creature in living memory, who has been in receipt of palutive care at God knows what cost to the tax payer, never mind the cost of keeping him alive since the early 1970s, surely it is time to reconsider how we deal with some of the basics in life?

I'm not suggesting a broadcast return to the death penalty but in cases where guilt is cut and dried, or where a sufferer has no idea of what is going on, we surely have to reconsider what we expect the state to fund.

[MPx]

Absolutely agree with the sentiment that we have a completely cock attitude towards human life.  We continue to produce small people at a simply unsustainable rate.  Even when they are born with all sorts of congenital difficulties we keep the poor unfortunate mites alive (because we can and the parents insist) when the lives involved are b****d beyond belief - even though the act of keeping said mite alive for (say 3 or 4 years) is to completely destroy the rest of the family and the lives of siblings.  We then have an equally potty attitude to anyone who has had enough and wants out.  This ranges from the merely depressed to the terminally ill or vegetables.  Why cant they decide for themselves if they would like to delete their burden from the planet.  I was forever scarred watching my father die of cancer and what our system of end of life care put him through.  All the medical staff were of course professional, caring, and sympathetic, but that doesn't take away from the utter cruelty of the whole event and Dad had no say in it - it was done to him by "the system".  We would not allow any other animal in our care to suffer like that.  And why?  Because human life has some kind of higher meaning than others and must be preserved at all costs.  Like I said, complete cock!   I'm not brave enough for the Beachy Head outing but will hopefully be prepared with gentler means when the time comes....

[oilmagnet477]

Mike, I hope I can sign you up for giving me a helping hand then - The Elite is more than likely going to need a push start

[C8RKH]

I could not bring myself to end the life of something as beautiful as a Lotus even though Beachy Head is a nice location. Like most I just hope to go to sleep one night and....

Chances are cause of death will be Mrs. C8RKH by way of a suitably positioned pillow.

I agree however with the futility of forcing someone to cling on to life. I lost a son early on and the best thing for him was for us, his parents, to let him go. As gut and heart wrenching as it was at the time, it was the best thing for him. Sometimes, it is not always about us.

[Kimbers]

What about the numbers of Foreign people in our jails. On average it costs £40,000 a year (depending on who you listen to) Plus rehab and regular checks/tagging when they come out. There are 10,500 foreign nationals (that's nationals, not joint or British citizens who emigrated here). That's a staggering £420 Million a year we are paying to keep them!!

Send them home. I don't care if they will be persecuted, they should have thought of that when they came here and committed crimes!

I also think a huge amount can be saved by reducing the number of MP's by half 650 to 325. Taking into account their Wages and expenses plus large leaving bonus/pension that would also save £38 million. 

To put things into context Police Budgets have been cut by over £300 million, which has resulted in there now being 22000 less front line Officers. Get rid of the chaff and support the area's we all know that need it. Police, Ambulance, NHS, Mental Health Care, Care in the Community.

Frankly, I wasn't impressed at the Conservative Manifesto. Paying for my own care in old Age is what I have paid my NI and Taxes for. And believe me I have paid a lot! But then this shower couldn't run a pub, yet alone a COuntry.

[Chillidoggy]

Bit of an aside, but kind of on topic: While I was head down in the garage working on the Esprit earlier today, I had a visit from the Thanet South MP Craig Mackinlay who was canvassing in the area. Turns out he's a bit of a car fan too, used to own an E-Type Jag, but said the two best days of ownership was the day he bought it and the day he sold it, as it was a cart load of trouble. His daily driver is a 20-year old Defender, as he's an accountant by profession, and felt it wouldn't lose him too much money.

We didn't talk much politics, but I did ask him what he thought of the Labour Party manifesto. He said he thought it was fanciful, and where was the money coming from to pay for it? He suggested it would entail storing up some very serious financial problems in the mid to long term for the country.

He did cast an eye over my wreck of an Esprit, wished me luck, and said it looked like there was a mountain to climb. Yeah, yeah, very astute.

[Dan E]

@mpx you are totally right, I have an interesting medical history which means pretty much every time i get a cold I have to bugger off to A&E for a CT scan. During one of these visits I had long chat with an ex GP who now worked there. I asked him why (and i swear on my sons life this is true) he said he was so pissed off (actual words) with looking after people who wanted their life to end or he knew he couldn't really help and not spending time with the ones he could. 

I was in there about 20 mins and if you know A&E i am sure this would have annoyed you but he was really passionate about this. He also gave me a book to read which i cant remember the title as i am away (sad meal for one and a beer at the moment) but about a Neurosurgeon and the ups and downs which i read and it would be in the top ten books i ever read also bloody interesting. 

I am having this with my 96 year old Nan, a very clever women worked for "Thatcher" ( don't start) travelled the world to an extent not may of us have. She would beat most of us in a general knowledge quiz, in fact she told me the other day about being on a bus in Blackheath during the war and the Luftwaffer coming from Greenwich Park and they had to duck on the bus. This is backed up by the bullet holes on the statue in Greenwich Park. She never bother to mention that before. I would be on here with title " they f*&king tried to kill me today"  No joke wouldn't you, first time its ever been mentioned and I want to check it out. 

But her eyesight is gone, she cant hear and her back is causing her so much pain, she told the doctors no more treatment and that has been an up hill struggle. Surely its her life, bless her and it will break my heart when she goes but can you imagine struggling to get around and not being able to see (she is registered blind) or hear.  

 

Hows that for a rant of a man sitting in a hotel 3 beers in and the only one sitting at a table on his own

 

Dan  

 

 

[Dan E]

that should say I went to check it out, and the bullet holes are there. 

 

[Barrykearley]

[MPx]

11 hours ago, oilmagnet477 said:

Mike, I hope I can sign you up for giving me a helping hand then - The Elite is more than likely going to need a push start

That might just push me over the edge...   

 

1 hour ago, Dan E said:

I am having this with my 96 year old Nan, a very clever women worked for "Thatcher" ( don't start) travelled the world to an extent not may of us have. She would beat most of us in a general knowledge quiz, in fact she told me the other day about being on a bus in Blackheath during the war and the Luftwaffer coming from Greenwich Park and they had to duck on the bus. This is backed up by the bullet holes on the statue in Greenwich Park. She never bother to mention that before. I would be on here with title " they f*&king tried to kill me today"  No joke wouldn't you, first time its ever been mentioned and I want to check it out. 

But her eyesight is gone, she cant hear and her back is causing her so much pain, she told the doctors no more treatment and that has been an up hill struggle. Surely its her life, bless her and it will break my heart when she goes but can you imagine struggling to get around and not being able to see (she is registered blind) or hear.  

Hows that for a rant of a man sitting in a hotel 3 beers in and the only one sitting at a table on his own

Dan  

Pretty good for 3 beers in.  Waiting for what happens after 6.  Same story here with more-than-my-lifetime family friend John, also 96.  Mind as sharp as ever and excellent company but his body started shutting down in his early 80s.  He still lives in his own flat, but in constant pain, barely mobile, which not much of him still working, and with the indignity of social services coming in to attend to his needs which amounts to cleaning up after him and cleaning him + the meals on wheels services.  Its all pretty degrading, made worse by it being a different person (both sexes) most times who he doesn't know and who don't know him and they are usually on a schedule of less than 15 mins in his flat (morning and evening) which isn't long enough to do the job properly.   If we're not going to pay what's necessary look after people properly (and I'm pretty sure the country cant afford to), then we should make provision to allow them to depart with their dignity intact.  

[Dan E]

Mike spot on mate (i gave up after 3 beers btw) it amazes me that anyone can control your life it is yours surely. Now i am a very luck chap i very nearly didn't make it a few years ago, well 8 hours later and it would have all over, but i was 42 with a family,  i think,  (bit sketchy about that time mainly due to morphine)  and the NHS saved my life i know how much it cost to look after me because i now have a beer with my surgeon every now and then, Rob Bentley if you fancy googling him. 

We have raised a good few quid for Kings but it is a drop in the ocean really, the NHS maybe  a lot of things but it is f&*king amazing when you are really are in trouble. I might be making this up but if i was in the USA (which i love btw i got married there) would i still be here? 

 

Strangely this happened nearly to the month i cancelled private medical care! 

[Bibs]

As you know, my 2nd hand experience of the NHS at Kings is beyond reproach. Some amazing people work there.