Evora market watch, for discussion and to help those searching!

[marcfair]

49 minutes ago, Bruss said:

No, NO! 52K is waaayyyyy too cheap for an S1.  Particularly grey ones.

 

 

 

😁👍

[exeterjeep]

33 minutes ago, Celica said:

higher cost of running

My 430 is no more than the S - I had, it even seems to have a bit better mpg.

 

1 hour ago, marcfair said:

the white with blue interior  400

that's a 'new' 410 sport spec'd by Hendy and still not sold, will be needing an MOT in a while. The white is nice - but that blue!!!!! 

[jep]

9 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

430 is no more than the S - I had, it even seems to have a bit better mpg.

Over a decent mileage, say 30000 over 4 years, surely a 430 must cost more? Tyres, brakes, fuel (if using 7000rpm the Toyota supercharged engine does drink a lot of fuel)... And if something does fail, I suspect 430 parts are pricier, though many will be the same of course.

Of course, you may save all this on less depreciation..but higher entry ticket. 

My point was that some buyers are only looking at S1. 

Justin

[exeterjeep]

4 minutes ago, jep said:

And if something does fail, I suspect 430 parts are pricier, though many will be the same of course.

Certainly had more things done to my car than I would have on the S, but really surprised that the insurance was cheap. I tend to drive like I pay for the fuel.... oh, hang on I do.

Have bought a 2 year warranty for £1400, that would have been the same on the S. Would have not changed the tyres if it came with the 4S's

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, jep said:

Some buyers don't want the 400 styling. Or want the power. 

So the correlation between S1 and 400 prices is not directly comparable, especially as the cars get older. No-one says a S1 Esprit is comparable to a S3 Turbo with regard prices, as the appeal of each has diverged - the same is slowly happening with Evora.

Justin

 

I agree with you @jep.  I would go further to say that for me, if I was to get back into an S1, it would be for an NA every time.  The NA for me is very definitely the sweet spot for the Evora. The most pure, usuable, and enjoyable Evora of the lot. To drive one hard it is just sublime on UK twisty roads.

I do agree with you that the power of the 4xx models starts to make it really hard to get the same driver engagement and "feel" on UK roads at anything other than freedom inhibiting speeds.

As a driver, the S1 NA ticks every box, for me.

[Celica]

I totally agree

in most cars not stripped out motors I think 250-300bhp is the sweet spot for uk roads and engagement fun

[jep]

Sub-300bhp in sub-1300KG. or sub-200bhp in sub-1000KG.

450bhp in a 1600KG wagon (Porsche Targa for example) is just not exciting to me, however pleasant the interior.

How many folk have 500bhp Rangy/F-Pace/4x4 things that they never use the power.......if only folk and manufacturers would accept luxury with less BHP, the world would be a better place.

Lotus have proved you are unlikely to sell many sportscars without a headline large BHP figure. Even the Elise, so perfect with 118bhp and 720KG, had to give way to power hikes and weight gains (legislation in part but frankly the 134bhp S3 car did not sell well).

Justin

 

 

 

[exeterjeep]

Like Top Trumps in the performance figures, even EV's are going that way as well.

[TdM]

EVs are in silly mode. 2.x 0-62 times... Why?

I know that everyone is terribly excited by the instant torque and snapping acceleration and that's nice and all, but after one or two launches it turns into a 'nice to know it's there' which is fine on a big cruiser but a bit boring on a sports car because you can never actually really use it.

I literally wanted a car that I could actually push on in on the public road without it getting into silly numbers, the NA does that perfectly. I've done "pick a number and flex your toe to that amount" type of car and whilst it can give you some satisfaction, most of the time you just drive around wishing you could find somewhere that you could actually wind it out, which is basically only a slip road.

[C8RKH]

7 minutes ago, TdM said:

I literally wanted a car that I could actually push on in on the public road without it getting into silly numbers, the NA does that perfectly. I've done "pick a number and flex your toe to that amount" type of car and whilst it can give you some satisfaction, most of the time you just drive around wishing you could find somewhere that you could actually wind it out, which is basically only a slip road.

Amen to that. I have decided to keep my Evora 410 long term. I was thinking about a McLaren 570 GT/S and have looked at a few, but to be honest, whilst a really nice car I think it is just going to be hard to use, AND importantly enjoy, the performance it gives on the road (I'd not track it, too much of a whimp).

So, having thought long and hard about what I want, I am starting to zero in on a Caterham!  Probabaly need to lose a few inches to fit in one, even with the SV wide chassis

I don't want a crazy fast one like the 420/620 as it sort of misses the point. A Caterham under 200bhp will be plenty fast enough on a nice summers morning, afternoon, evening to make very rapid progress DRIVING the thing hard, whereas even my 410 Evora sort of just drives itself as it has such huge torque etc. The Macca would just be one step further on still.

So, seen a nice 40year limited edition Caterham 125 that looks ideal, and have a couple of others to look at in the new year.

I can get a great car for under £25k, which is significantly cheaper than the cost of trading up to a Macca 570, and about the same as trading in for an Emira V6 FE - but I get to keep my beloved Evora too!  What's not to like?

Even thinking that the new Caterham 170, with its 666cc Suzuki engine and turbo, giving 84bhp in a car weighing only 440kg (I make that 190bhp per ton!) might be the way to go. But they don't do the wider chassis and physically that may be a big problem for me.

To keep on topic, if I did not have my current Evora, but had a Daily Driver and was looking for something for the weekend/fun, then I'd be putting my money into an Evora S1 NA. The jewel in the crown. In fact that's exactly what I did, 6 years ago, to get into my first Lotus....

[Daveb99]

Couldn’t agree more with the last few posts about the S1 NA.  I think the values of these are going to continue to rise for many years yet - driven by supply and demand, and relative immunity to the current used car ‘bubble’ bursting.   When I was looking last winter,  the starting point for NA’s was around £24k ish.   It’s now more like £29k.   That’s 20% in 12 months.

Here’s why - in my view at least.  

I’ve had 9 Lotuses over the last 22 years - admittedly mostly Elise S1’s (and I have still go a lovely yellow one).   I had an Exige V6 for about 2 years but found it was just too much for the road - and it didn’t give me the same buzz that my Elise gave me unless I was doing silly speeds.   Nothing clever about that.

Enter the Evora NA (in my case, a Launch Edition).    The perfect solution to my problem of wanting a Lotus to use and enjoy whatever the weather.   It’s a blend of so many great things that are virtually impossible to find in any other sports car:

• Usable but still very brisk performance for the roads - the NA isn’t a “point and shoot” car like the supercharged Evoras and Exiges - you have to drive it properly and really think about how to extract the best from it - that’s what makes it so engaging and satisfying to drive
• A supple but perfectly controlled ride quality that puts most saloons (and probably all SUVs) to shame.
• A lovely noise when pushing on or just bimbling around (especially with a different exhaust)
• Utterly fantastic handling and balance - especially on Michelin PS4 or PS4S - both on slow and technical B-roads and on faster, more open roads
• Unique design (it’s not trying to copy anything else, it’s not a mish-mash) with an interior that wraps itself around you
• Great long distance GT ability and fuel economy when you need it - I’ve frequently seen 35-37mpg from mine on longer runs, with the long box (but equally under 20mpg when I’m “on it”)
• Low road tax (I personally find it hard to justify £50 a month for the supercharged version when I’m not driving it every week, £30 is far more reasonable!)
• Practical 2+2 layout and a decent boot - I’m hoping to keep mine long enough to get grandkids in the back for a couple of years!
• A safe place to put your money - I’m not sure the same could be said for those opting for a £60k - £80k GT410 (and possibly even the 400/410) with the Emira due to hit the roads next year.
• An interior with all the things you need (especially when fitted with a decent Apple Car Play/Android Auto HU) and nothing you don’t - the sign of a driver focussed car.   (OK, a solitary cup holder would be nice!).   I just want to drive it and focus on pushing and balancing the car around corners.  Touch screens and fancy gizmos won’t help me with that…

I could go on - but I won’t - most of us know all this!   Of course they have their faults, mine was the 17th Evora produced and obviously they’ve made a few improvements in the later models.   But I actually enjoy improving it and addressing some of the known issues here and there, it’s almost part of the charm of owning a hand-built, totally driver-focussed, unique sports car.    I’ve done quite a bit to mine - see my thread here if you’re interested (it may help some of you too, hopefully):

I also think the fact that it’s no secret that the Emira chassis is almost identical to the Evora speaks volumes about the driving dynamics the chassis delivers.

What a car (especially with it’s new Xmas present - gloss anthracite wheels!)

[scotty435]

Going against the general love for the original S1s here and will probably be criticised for my honest opinion about the same car. Not here to say how many lotus i have had before, i have had more than a few.I was lucky to be in position back in 2009 to be a early deposit holder for a launch Edition and was looking forward to take delivery that same year. Luckily for me i did get a drive one of the first dealership cars and realised it was not the car I wanted even then it felt underpowered coming from a 260 Exige Sprint probably clouded my judgment even though the Evora was something that a lotus owner as never experienced before when it came to comfort and a ride like a flying carpet. For me thankfully after some arguments i did get my deposit back. Moving forward to my ownership experience in the last few years after going through a divorce and not wanting to miss my love for the brand i had to sell my new at the time 250 Cup and purchase  what I thought was probably one of the best S1s at the time for the going market price and still believe the car is one the best out there and still believe this is true. 
Now for bad news as much as i liked the car it still felt underpowered and occasionally the car at the limit did scare me, some brisk driving on Sunday mornings runs with other Lotus enthusiast never gave me much engorgement. For me i am in a lucky position to have a GT410sport now and yes its a lot more powerful and it sounds awesome for me its the handling that is the big difference between the two cars it’s night and day so much better. 

[Ba55uma]

3 hours ago, Daveb99 said:

 

 

I am guessing entry is through passenger door only. It's parked do close to the wall. 

[Daveb99]

6 hours ago, scotty435 said:

Going against the general love for the original S1s here and will probably be criticised for my honest opinion about the same car. Not here to say how many lotus i have had before, i have had more than a few.I was lucky to be in position back in 2009 to be a early deposit holder for a launch Edition and was looking forward to take delivery that same year. Luckily for me i did get a drive one of the first dealership cars and realised it was not the car I wanted even then it felt underpowered coming from a 260 Exige Sprint probably clouded my judgment even though the Evora was something that a lotus owner as never experienced before when it came to comfort and a ride like a flying carpet. For me thankfully after some arguments i did get my deposit back. Moving forward to my ownership experience in the last few years after going through a divorce and not wanting to miss my love for the brand i had to sell my new at the time 250 Cup and purchase  what I thought was probably one of the best S1s at the time for the going market price and still believe the car is one the best out there and still believe this is true. 
Now for bad news as much as i liked the car it still felt underpowered and occasionally the car at the limit did scare me, some brisk driving on Sunday mornings runs with other Lotus enthusiast never gave me much engorgement. For me i am in a lucky position to have a GT410sport now and yes its a lot more powerful and it sounds awesome for me its the handling that is the big difference between the two cars it’s night and day so much better. 

Hi Scotty, hope all is well mate.  I guess the S1 NA will always feel a little down on power compared to something like a GT410 Sport, or a 400.    They have 50% more power!   As you know I’ve had a ride in your car and it’s absolutely sublime in terms of performance and ability.   A real supercar rival in a better package, for a lot less money.

I think for many of us who own the NA, we accept that you have to really drive it, and, certainly in my case, very much enjoy wringing the car out now and again to extract the performance it does have.   It’s still more than quick enough for the roads - and I’m nowhere near the limits of the car.   The Exige V6 I had, on the other hand, although a real weapon, just didn’t deliver the thrills I wanted because it was all a bit too effortless to go really fast - like flicking a switch rather than turning a dial, if that makes sense.   Some people want that of course, which is fine, I’ve had a couple of other cars in the past like that, and enjoyed them at the time, I just find now that having less power a bit more engaging and rewarding.

If you’re taking your Evora on track, I can see how people would want more power, but even then I’m pretty sure I’d enjoy working with what I have.

I’m really surprised to hear that it scared you on the limit, mine has always been absolutely planted but perhaps that’s down to the Michelins - they really are mighty compared to the Pirellis, in a much broader range of conditions.   Maybe your geo was a bit out too - as I’ve never heard anyone say the Evora has scared them on the limit before.  

On the same Sunday morning runs as you (I love following yours btw, it’s music to my ears!) I’m absolutely grinning from ear to ear and still can’t believe how much fun it is peddling the Evora through the twisty stuff.   You can really see how the Lotus DNA has carried through from the Elise, and it’s way more capable than I expected.

Back on topic somewhat though - we must remember that, at present the used value of a decent S1 NA is about £40k - £50k less than a GT410 Sport !    In my case I chose to have a Launch Edition alongside my Elise S1, rather than sell both and buy, say, a 400.    I love having the two options in the garage for different occasions, roads and conditions, and the purity of the drive in the Elise is just sublime - I think I’ll always have one of them tucked away….

To put it in perspective even more - you can buy an very good used Evora NA plus an Exige V6 for the same as a used GT410 !   I do completely understand why you bought yours though - it’s a proper animal and also happens to look utterly stunning - although I still love the purity of the S1 design.   Wish I could have both

 

5 hours ago, Ba55uma said:

I am guessing entry is through passenger door only. It's parked do close to the wall. 

Well spotted - I normally park it “nose in” but I had just fitted my wheels on that side….

[exeterjeep]

The blue IPS one has a deposit on now, went quickly... is a nice colour having seen it today,

[Ba55uma]

Blimey.. they are hot cakes.. that was a quick sale

[exeterjeep]

Did not dare ask what it made, it seems that someone wanted an IPS, saw the pics of the grey one, and noticed the blue one behind. They are going to do some detailing on it  

[paranoidandroid]

Wow, that was very quick. Seems folks prefer to buy from a main dealer. It was on AT privately for a few weeks at £43k, unless it was a case of right person at right time. Be interesting to see if their grey one goes soon as that is strong money too. Positive they are selling though.

I think Emira  hype, reviews and sales will see an increase in demand for older Evora (those priced at Emira levels may struggle).

[Ba55uma]

1 hour ago, exeterjeep said:

Did not dare ask what it made, it seems that someone wanted an IPS, saw the pics of the grey one, and noticed the blue one behind. They are going to do some detailing on it  

Well, people like me with dodgy knee and who drive through standstill city traffic prefer an auto box over the manual. There is a market for the supercharged IPS and going by howmanyleft there are only 28 examples 

[C8RKH]

I can see the torquey nature of the S working great with an IPS. Nice combo for sure.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Bravo73

[exeterjeep]

Would be interesting to try a 430 auto, think there are a few in UK. (3?)

[Bibs]

@Sizona had one

 

[TdM]

4 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

The blue IPS one has a deposit on now, went quickly... is a nice colour having seen it today,

Hopefully it turns up on here. Nice car.

[Celica]

On 25/11/2021 at 20:02, p4cks said:

I like the photos in my for sale adverts to be uniform and in the same location rather than a hodge-podge of library shots so once I get the chance, there'll be loads more.

Did it sell?

[Bravo73]

Yes (according to a post on Pistonheads).