Evora 410 tyres

[ricvx]

Have to say I found the Cup 2's incredible at Knockhill. The car just stuck to the track and gave me loads of confidence. Track driving may only be 1% of the miles I do but it would be a shame to lose that extra grip. Like Jonny mentions in his vid, my lefts exhibit some feathering on the edge. These tyres clearly don't last too many miles and regular track work could get very expensive. No doubt the PS4S sounds like the best all rounder and once my new rears are shot I'll give them a go all round.

Right Andy, lets get a track day booked!

[Simon Bateman]

I watched a very thorough review video of the three Michelin sports tyres before I  made my decision on what to replace the Conti's with on our Type R and the reviewer said that Michelin conceived the range as:

PS4 = 100% Road use

PS4s = 80% Road use - 20% track use

Cup 2 = 20% Road use - 80% track use

Aside from the headline figures for quicker laps in the cup 2's, clearly they are so heavily compromised in normal British weather that the negatives quickly out weigh the positives.

I generally bite the bullet on the first axle tyre change with most cars and stick with the OEM option where possible and thereafter when I do a full change, I opt for something that works better for me.

I don't SCORN our sports cars and although winter usage inevitably drops off a bit, on cold dry days, the Lotus does make the 20 mile trek into Milton Keynes and personally I've had previous issues with normal 'summer' tyres not switching on adequately in the cold and wet that would honestly put me off the cups for my intended usage.  

 

[electro_boy]

On 04/07/2019 at 10:56, mik said:

@DBG I dont suppose that is available online? I do love a good tyre test - evo magazine has done some great ones in the past.

If you like a good tyre test check out http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk its the same person / people as the video @Techyd posted about cup2 / PS4S / PS4.  They try and collate reviews from different sources and is very interesting if you like stats and tyres!  search for a tyre you are interested in and scroll down a bit and they should have a list of links to past tests the tyre has been in.

[C8RKH]

On 04/07/2019 at 15:21, The Pits said:

Sounds like a plan but you can expect some more understeer with new rears and worn fronts. That said, the Sport 410 really doesn't do understeer, not its bag, you might luck into a stunningly neutral set up!

PS4s make lots of sense for road use, totally get that, especially in cooler parts of the world. No direct experience of them but a very good tyre by all accounts. Wouldn't deny a Sport 410 owner the feeling of a 410 on fresh Cup2s though. Throw in some Scottish roads, July - October. Lordy Lord!

You are teasing me more than the picture of Kylie in not very much at all on my garage wall!  Stop it!!!  Just been on a few hour drive to nowhere today, the warm weather, dry roads, yeah, the CUP2's, even worn, were just wonderful!  Argh...  So hard to make my mind up.

[Bravo73]

On 04/07/2019 at 08:15, Techyd said:

 ...and this might be worth noting to.  I've not checked the left / right pattern on my sport 4's yet.

 

I’ve just watched @The Pits‘s video on the MPC2s. I’d be interested to hear @rallyesax‘s opinion about the increased wear on the front left tyre. 

[The Pits]

Me too!

It's not just the front left, both front and rear left show feathering on the outer rain grooves. I totally expect the left tyres to wear more around a clockwise track (as most are) but the tyre tread looks optimised for the right hand side of the car to me and are all made from the same mould. I'm sure the cost of left and right sided tyres wouldn't be worth it and Cup2s do offer real value for money and perform brilliantly, we've never had it so good with road legal tyres before. Totally get why it's done and the ability to swap left and right between trackdays (which I wasn't doing but will be from now on) most likely outweighs having more optimal tread designs left and right. Instead of wearing out a set on the left first and chucking the whole lot away, you can swap over left to right and get another trackday out of it. Maybe two or three extra trackdays by swapping over in between. Doing what I did is the fastest way to knacker a set. Front left shot in 4 trackdays, if swapping over got me to 6 days that's close to what I was getting out of the Exige (7 days from a set of Avon ZZRs). However I wasn't swapping the ZZRs over either. We live and learn!

[Julian73]

On 04/07/2019 at 08:40, C8RKH said:

According to many "experts", there is no difference between a 400 and a 410 Sport, they are identical apart from the carbon and the engines are the same, the maps are the same, the suspension is the same and ALL the performance difference is just down to the CUP2's on a warmer day at Hethel.......

My main issue with the CUP2's Jonny is that on cooler (or should that be colder) Scottish, damp roads, I just lose confidence with them as you get zero heat in them. All joking aside the average temperature difference between where I live, and the south coast of England, is between 4 and 7c - might not sould a lot but on a damp Mar/Apr morning that could be 5/6c up here versus 12/13c down there and that makes a big difference to the tyres, believe me. I did a Highland Hoon in April - it was wet, and my car just wouldn't stick to the road - the other Scottish Cars (R8's, Macca etc) where all on the PS4s and they had no such issues - they had all mostly changed from the CUP 2's too.

So, this is my quandary and issue - the CUP2's need heat in them, I don't think anyone will deny that, AND, they're not brilliant in the wet - so maybe, for road driving in Scotland the next one down (PS4) would be the better bet unless of course I was on the track - but I have my supercharged VX for that for now with it's superb AVON ZZR/S tyres that just grip and last forever......

The cost is not the main issue - other than being a bit fed up at just how much the main dealer was ripping me off with their prices - it's more the road/temp conditions. I mean, looking out the window now it' cloudy, raining and could be freakin' March!  Argh.....

I think I will follow @rickvx advice and get two new rear CUP2's to see how I get on whilst wearing down the fronts. Just checked the fronts and they have just over 3mm on them so not worth changing just now. I'll also get the 410 booked on a track day too to ensure I experience the best of the CUP2's - it's crazy I haven't done it yet and will be a big comparison to what my NA felt like on track.

While I agree that most of the difference is due to etc cup 2's the 400 and 410 are not identical. Suspension is different in that dampers are a different rate and lower spring seat is dropped resulting in a measurable difference in ride height which then provides for larger neg. camber settings.  The other significant items is that those carbon bits etc. do result in a significant weight savings also improving handling.  

 

That aside, unless you are focused on track use there is no need for the Cup 2's or any 'R' rated tire for that matter with poor wet handling (I'm taking real road wet , puddles etc), poor low temperature performance, and narrower slip angles between peak grip and stall.  Car companies spec ultra performance tires to compete in the magazine tests, not for what 80% of drivers need.  My view is if you can afford to wear out R tires every few weeks on track, then why are you not using separate wheel sets.

[rallyesax]

Totally understand your point @The Pits

However, Yes ! They are optimised for track days knowing that most tracks turn clockwise. So that the left hand side tire will see more corners that the other. 😉

And if you pay attention, you will see that the angle at the shoulder that you mention is going the opposite way to a PS4S for example (which is not a trackday focus tire). And it was done specificaly for this 😉 (it improves the stiffness, lasting performance and the shape of the contact patch while cornering because of the way the groove retain forces while entering the contact area). I know, it doesn't feel intuitive when you look at it, but it actually does when you do the math. And we do have 'feathering' (not sure that's what you meant) on the shoulders with other tirelines also with other Psi angles. 

The Pirelli Trofeo R you're showing at the end of the video is of course different in terms of tread pattern but you can see that, as a track focus tire, it also uses the same 'reverse' outer shoulder angle than us. 

In competition, Formula E cars use tires that have almost identical looking tread patterns to PSCup2. Shoulders are done the same way for the same reasons ☺️

Speaking of trofeos R. I've been testing some of them last month at the Nurburgring against our Cup2. Their performance on the first lap are trumendous ! They are ahead of the cup2 with no doubt but then they drop in performance laps after laps. But hey ! It is state of the art semi slick, and should be compared to our Cup 2R 😋 (but we don't have a big size range 😥) 

They also act like real slicks when cold ! You really have to put some heat in it to get them to stick or it's real Ice-skating 

And I aslo have to say... They look cool 😎 

[The Pits]

Fantastic info from the horses mouth there. Much appreciated. TLF Gold! 👍

Six trackdays is excellent wear really for a tyre of such high performance on a 1300+kg sports car. Certainly the best compromise out there for wet/dry/road/track if not the ultimate in dry track laptime over a single lap!

[electro_boy]

Thanks for the feedback @rallyesax 

[rallyesax]

You're welcome

[Bravo73]

Here is something else to throw into the mix:

 

[bosshog]

So which way did you go in the end??

Personally I think the Cups2 is what makes the 410 feel like the 410. Just love them. But they are totally crap below 8 degrees. If you have the money keep Cup2 for the summer and then get some proper winter tyres for the cold part of the year - that would be my choice. Winter tyres are so much better than summer tyres (PS4, etc)