S4/S4s fuel rail fitting - query

[Chillidoggy]

This fitting is on the forward end of the fuel rail, however it doesn't appear in any parts manual. The fuel rail feed pipe screws into the end of it. It can be rotated, and squeaks whilst doing so, so it must be in some kind of rubber sleeve, or the like. The rail has “MADE IN USA AC” and 17089074 2365 engraved on it, but I couldn’t find any other info. on the fitting. Very odd.

Anyone had one apart before?

[sailorbob]

I believe there is an O ring in the end fitting and, I'm afraid to say, if you have rotated it you have probably wrecked the seal. I am not aware of any replacement and I have a recollection that entire rail is stated as needing replacing when the seal has failed.  The general solution appears to welding a AN type union onto the the end of the rail and replacing the hose.

[Chillidoggy]

I shall find out whether that’s the case when I refit all the injectors. If is is, then clearly I’ll have to do some jiggery-pokery to fix it.

By the way, if anyone needs injector cleaning/overhaul in Kent, I used I.A. Motorsport, between Maidstone and Sittingbourne. They also do corner weighting and geometry, which I shall be looking at in the future.

[fjmuurling]

 

[sailorbob]

Found a note in a workshop manual for the Beretta Quad 4 engine which uses the same style of fuel rail that states:

Do not attempt to remove the fuel inlet fitting on the fuel rail, it is staked in place. To do so will result in damage to the fuel rail or to the internal 'O' ring seal.

Hopefully your O ring has not aged so much that turning the fitting has destroyed its sealing ability.

[Chillidoggy]

I replaced both the black nylon fuel lines using the original fittings and some nice, black-braided, fuel hose. I have to make a new clamp bracket for the larger diameter hoses, and I’ve bought a new hose clamp, but there’s no leaks from the fuel rail.

Engine was a bit lumpy at first, but after warming up the idle is now smoother than before. I’d count this as a success but I haven’t driven it as yet.

[Giniw]

Why would it be smoother than before changing the fuel lines? What was the problem? (sorry if I missed something)

[ekwan]

On 10/12/2019 at 23:24, Chillidoggy said:

This fitting is on the forward end of the fuel rail, however it doesn't appear in any parts manual. The fuel rail feed pipe screws into the end of it. It can be rotated, and squeaks whilst doing so, so it must be in some kind of rubber sleeve, or the like. The rail has “MADE IN USA AC” and 17089074 2365 engraved on it, but I couldn’t find any other info. on the fitting. Very odd.

Anyone had one apart before?

 

Is that a crack I see?

[Chillidoggy]

Well spotted Eric, thanks. However it’s not a crack, just a mark.

[Chillidoggy]

Ended up fabricating a new steel support bracket, and bought an alloy hose clamp to replace the nylon clips. The hoses now look reasonable, with enough flex, and most importantly they don't leak. I'm reasonably happy with the result, and it meant I hadn't got to worry about how to form the original black nylon hoses.

 

[sailorbob]

Interestingly the parts manual lists a fuel rail O ring kit (part number A910E6969F) which includes inlet and outlet O rings. I wonder if this means, unlike the Beretta Quad 4 fuel rail, that the inlet O ring is replaceable. Unfortunately the kit is discontinued.

[Chillidoggy]

18 hours ago, sailorbob said:

Interestingly the parts manual lists a fuel rail O ring kit (part number A910E6969F) which includes inlet and outlet O rings. I wonder if this means, unlike the Beretta Quad 4 fuel rail, that the inlet O ring is replaceable. Unfortunately the kit is discontinued.

 

Yes, I noticed that too, but like you, couldn't find that P/N available anywhere. But it made me wonder whether it is overhaulable, hence the OP. Parts book says "inlet seal, outlet seal, rail to PRV seal, PRV connector seal". Definitely 4 seals mentioned, and the only ones I found additional to the PRV and inlet connection were in the rail itself. If I were a betting man, I'd buy a new rail for a Sunfire, or Beretta or Skylark just to see if it's the same.

 

@GiniwI have two sets of injectors, and had them all overhauled and the best matched as a set. I changed the fuel lines because they're 25 years old, they were showing signs of wear in places, and they had some marks on them I didn't like.

 

 

[Chillidoggy]

In my travels I did discover that the 1988 Buick Skylark fuel pressure regulator is a dead ringer for the Esprit item. And fuel rail O-rings are available, although I cannot determine whether they're internal or external to the rail. The last ones I found were listed as being 3/8" and 1/4", which presumably is the thickness, rather than the diameter.

[Dan E]

1 hour ago, Chillidoggy said:

In my travels I did discover that the 1988 Buick Skylark fuel pressure regulator is a dead ringer for the Esprit item. And fuel rail O-rings are available, although I cannot determine whether they're internal or external to the rail. The last ones I found were listed as being 3/8" and 1/4", which presumably is the thickness, rather than the diameter.

Oh and I thought I was was only man who went on holiday and looked for fuel pressure regulators! 
 

“come on honey, put that G&T down, lets go on a fuel pressure regulator search again” 

 

[Chillidoggy]

7 minutes ago, Dan E said:

Oh and I thought I was was only man who went on holiday and looked for fuel pressure regulators! 
 

“come on honey, put that G&T down, lets go on a fuel pressure regulator search again” 

 

I meant internet travels, you plonker!

[sailorbob]

The fuel rail / fuel pressure regulator O ring is BS1806-117 sized.

[chandrab]

I also want to replace the fuel pipes on my 91 SE.  Where did you end up buying the fuel pressure O-Ring? I assume that needs to be replaced?  What about the fuel hose fittings...what do you did you use there?

[Chillidoggy]

6 hours ago, chandrab said:

I also want to replace the fuel pipes on my 91 SE.  Where did you end up buying the fuel pressure O-Ring? I assume that needs to be replaced?  What about the fuel hose fittings...what do you did you use there?

To which O-ring are you referring? The one in the end of the fuel rail, or the ones in the hex-fittings? If it's the latter, I used SJ, but the nut to fuel rail fitting O-ring I ordered didn't fit, so I had to find another one from stock.

"I replaced both the black nylon fuel lines using the original fittings and some nice, black-braided, fuel hose." Already in the 6th post down.

[EXCEL V8]

Just for future reference - this is what the fitting looks like:

It is held in place by staking - the thinly turned end of the fuel rail was pushed hard against the concave face of the fitting itself, folding over the end and keeping the fitting in place.  I was hoping there would be enough material to tap, but it is too thin - welding is the only option or making up a fitting similar to the FRP at the other end but fitting internally not externally.

Pete