Brexit

[Barrykearley]

If mine asked that in the format the eu are then frankly - I’d chuck her out and worry about it later

[ChrisJ]

56 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

But I never knew my house would plummet in value, interest rates rocket, unemployment soar, food shortages, no medicine and small puppies die...

From page 20

 

[C8RKH]

I'd dig a hole at the bottom of the garden and tell everyone she'd gone on holiday. Bet the roses I planted grow well too 

@Black Forest Power - I agree you need to formally close things down. But just leaving without doing the deal is actually the legal default position in this case. Bit like leaving your job. You give the required notice, wish everyone well then toodle off.

[Black Forest Power]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I'd dig a hole at the bottom of the garden and tell everyone she'd gone on holiday. Bet the roses I planted grow well too 

😂 Monty Python is alive!

[Barrykearley]

[100th_Idiot]

A pox on all there houses. BJ just the same as JC. Only interested in his self entitlement to become prime minister. Sod them all.

[Black Forest Power]

The discussion going on here made me remember of an article I read in a leading Swiss newspaper lately. Therefore, I translated it into English and I think it might be interesting within two active topics, that’s why I will post it twice.

Comment by Roman Bucheli in Neue Zürcher Zeitung (NZZ) 19.12.2018

What the hell is going on with the men?

Is the man a discontinued model? Or has he simply not yet made the leap into the modern age? His attachment to outdated self-images is a symptom of a prolonged crisis.
Where is David Cameron? Where did he go? No former British Prime Minister has made himself as invisible as the one who left the British with the Brexit mess. He believed in a brilliant political move, gambled and resigned, happy as it seemed. After me the deluge. Since then he is bored, it is said, and he writes, for a considerable sum, his memoirs.
Maybe Cameron also squats in the souffle box at the pitiful spectacle of the “braggarts” that the British just have to watch and endure for quite a while to their own grief. Because on and behind the stage are his old buddies and opponents, now united in the choir of squallers, from Boris Johnson to Jeremy Corbyn, who currently know only one script: Theresa May roar and deride.
It cannot be a coincidence that in the summer of 2016, when Cameron resigned after his blatant defeat (not having to pay for the pickle he got the country into), two women were ready for election to the party’s presidency. Theresa May finally prevailed without a ballot among the party members. Previously, one men after the other did not gear up to start (George Osborne) or prematurely out of the race (Boris Johnson). They have guessed that the Brexit negotiations with the EU would not make them win a potted plant. Theresa May did not shrink from that.
To the brutal screenplay of this tragedy (which one would like to call tragicomic, if it would not be that much severe for the Brits) now belongs that the woman who pulled the hot chestnuts out of the fire in Brussels, must let her tell under contempt and laughter that unfortunately these are the wrong chestnuts. For sure, you could bet that the men who are shouting loudest today would not have made a better deal.
One would like to say: Theresa May fought like a man, if the stereotype was not that much wrong in a double sense. She fought like a lioness and above all: like no man would have done. Namely in a hopeless situation. Every man, from Boris Johnson to Nigel Farage, would have referred to Ernest Hemingway: "But man is not made for defeat." No, men are not made for defeat, they can only be destroyed, according to Hemingway.
So much heroism has been getting ridiculous at Hemingway's times already. He has always been anachronistic. So much more unworthy is therefore the British drama (not only because it is performed at the expense of the people). It's also, in the days of #MeToo and Trump's ridiculously long ties, a striking example of a manhood that never gets tired from celebrating itself vigorously, but does not realize that thereby it reaches its level of shrinkage: the man is in crisis. He is threatened by becoming a phase-out model.
Just over ten years ago, the American state theorist Harvey C. Mansfield made a brilliant debacle with his book "Manliness" (Yale University Press, 2006). In there one could read the memorable sentence: "Although it is obvious that women can be masculine, it is evident likewise that they cannot be that much masculine or not as often as men." The sentence manifests downright the crisis of a frozen thinking in contrast to what Mansfield pretended to write in his book.
Half a century earlier, Mansfield's Harvard colleague, the historian Arthur Schlesinger, had stated soberly that maleness is perceived less and less as a fact, but rather as a problem. This would have resulted in two developments: on the one hand a widespread uncertainty of the male identity, on the other hand an increase in aggressively reproduced self-images.
Of course, these symptoms did not occur just since the 20th century. They have always accompanied the imaginations of masculinity, where they were based on presumption and pre-emptive exercise of power. Since such self-images are unstable and always endangered. Therefore, they have to be defended all the more aggressively.
Literature has also developed a special sensorium in this respect, unmasking virtuously the alleged strength of men as their true weakness. One of the finest examples of this is perhaps Fontane's novel "Effi Briest". This is the deconstruction of the male concept of honor, which must confirm itself in a self-defeating duel, along with the portrait of a woman who matures into a tragic personality at the moment she gets cast out.
Fontane's novel shows drastically right there how masculinity is put up for negotiation and reaches a point of crisis without rescue when the man is better destroyed than defeated, according to Hemingway's motto. In turn, the British Parliament is currently offering the most bizarre visual instruction. If Jeremy Corbyn were the man he claims to be, and if he had the sense of responsibility that he claims to act on, he would have had to work with Theresa May or overthrow her, to do it better than she does.
He did and does not, because he is afraid of nothing more than to fall on his face like May. Because the braggart is a moral coward. He puts the raison d'etat behind the party doctrine, the welfare of the people behind his own. He cannot get out of his own skin, say: he, like many men, does not come out of his Hemingwayness. He must fulfill the cliché under whose premise he has begun.
Women too have been forced all the time to come to stay with their femininity in society. Because they had to break the role imposed on them. Early on, they realized that there would be no other way than to re-form this femininity over and over again and to manifold it in ever new images of femininity. What was man doing in the meantime? He kept on dreaming of Hemingway. That’s why by today a Scotsman looks ridiculous wearing a kilt.
Men seem to have little reason and even less phantasy to rethink and transform their role model, rather than constantly re-creating the old stereotypes. The man gradually reduces himself to folklore. And where the stereotypes of masculinity are then opposed by alternative role models, it is significant that it is parody and travesty: but the shrill drag queens rather mock the masculinity than seriously broadening their spectrum. And even the so-called softies have to carry a dubious label, which hints at contempt and makes imitation not really advisable.
So do we need less masculinity? Certainly not. But urgently required would be different ideas of masculinity, beyond cliché and caricature. But for that, the images of masculinity would have to be manifold. Less Hemingway, less James Dean, less John Wayne. The macho in all its forms - and I'm not talking about the bear hunter Putin or the tie wearing Trump - is, however, and unfortunately still the dominant reincarnation of masculinity, even in its tempered or camouflaged form towards gallantry. That has to change, and that will unfortunately take time.
Although the man may be an obsolete model in his frozen role model, not are the attributes habitually associated with him. Courage, strength, determination - whatever has been said about men’s special abilities -  they are not his genuine or exclusive domain. And the world will continue to depend on people, no matter if women or men, who act courageously, powerfully and decisively. But all these beautiful virtues will be of no use if they are not in the service of a reason greater than the ego of their representative.
That, in turn, would mean: taking responsibility spiritedly and with moral courage irrespective of the risks involved, and regardless of the dangers that are coming along with. Masculinity, once understood this way, would simply mean: humanity. So maybe the masculinity would have to be re-thought from this side.
And looking at the British House of Commons, where would you find these virtues? Not on the opposition bench, not on the backbenches of the Tories. But at the very front, where Theresa May is standing pretty lonely. Whatever one may think of her, one thing cannot be denied: that she fights for the affair of her country, even if she fights a losing battle. The honorable gentlemen must copy this first of all.
 

[JG220]

What an excellent video. 

[Black Forest Power]

Proposal to come out of the deadlock:

1.       Make your Brexit with or without deal.

2.       Get promise from EU that Mr. John Bercow will become President of the European Commission if you return.

3.       Hold a referendum about a Breturn.

😉

[Kimbers]

It shows how little Jeremy Corbyn knows about negotiation (Lets face it his mates the Terrorists idea of negotiation is similar to his). Refusing to speak to TM unless she takes no deal off the table is negotiation suicide!

They were talking to a Market Trader on 5 Live and he said "I rarely sell anything for what I have it for sale for, but I must have the fallback position of backing out of the deal and walking away or else there is no point to start negotiating cause I'll get a shit deal every time". They obviously Beeped out his swear word.

Then 5 Live proceeded to interview 5 Remainers to "even things out". When someone wrote in and accused them of bias as there were 5 remainers and only 1 leaver they said they are "Representative of the public opinion". I turned the channel off at that time and have refused to go back to it! Heart 80's it is!

[C8RKH]

Absolute Radio with the no repeats guarantee. Get it tuned in...

 

[Kimbers]

BBC 5 live again last night (Thought I'd give it another try). Interview with a London Bar owner.

Reporter: So you serve a lot of European Beers. It must worry you that you won't be able to get them in future.

Owner: No Not at all.

Reporter: ........stumped..... but you MUST be worried about it affecting your livelihood.

Owner: No not at all, my customers will still be here and my suppliers have said they will still deal with me.

Reporter: But it could mean more expensive beer and therefore less sales. You would be seriously affected

Owner: No, I'll just serve more UK beers if they put the prices up.

Reporter:.......... So as you can see Brexit could have an effect even on our beers......

Turned it off. Never listening again!

[100th_Idiot]

Anyone going to buy the new Dyson Moral Vacuum?

[slewthy]

‘Moral Vacuum is not a product, it’s a fiscal device to suck all of the company profits out of the UK tax-free, and strictly speaking I’m not a hypocrite. I campaigned to leave and I’m leaving. Cheerio suckers.’

Sic?

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, 100th_Idiot said:

Anyone going to buy the new Dyson Moral Vacuum?

No. I'm leaving the Dyson.  It's Dexit for me.

[Bibs]

No wonder they're angry! 

Quote

A “no deal” outcome from the Brexit negotiations would lead to a £500 billion loss for the European Union, according to a new analysis.

A study by Patrick Minford, a professor of economics at Cardiff University, states that while a failure to reach a deal would lead to “short term nuisance” for both sides, Brussels would face a “substantial economic loss”, compared to a net gain for the UK.

Prof Minford, who chairs the Eurosceptic Economists for Free Trade group, concludes: “It could not be more open and shut who least wants a breakdown”.

The analysis comes after David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, complained in a letter to the Prime Minister that Brussels was damaging British interests by talking up the threat to companies if the UK leaves the European Union without a deal.

Prof Minford said: “For the UK a breakdown would be a short term nuisance but a substantial economic gain; for the EU it is both a short term nuisance and a substantial economic loss.”

According to the analysis, the largest cost to the EU would be from paying the UK some £433 billion in tariff revenue. It would also lose around £28 billion which the UK would otherwise pay into the budget period to 2020, and a reported £10 billion contribution to longer term liabilities, as part of a financial settlement, Prof Minford concluded.

“Because its customs union with the UK would stop immediately, it would lose two years’ worth of the terms of trade gain its producers make on its balance of trade surplus with the UK- estimated at around £18 billion a year: so two years’ worth of that would be another £36 billion one-off loss,” he added.

By contrast, a breakdown in talks would lead to a “one-off gain” of £38 billion on savings in relation to the EU budget, in addition a £180 billion windfall as a result of bringing forward the “long-term gain” of “free trade, own-regulation and own-border-control” in the absence of the otherwise expected two-year implementation period for a deal.

The UK would also gain the total of £433 billion tariff revenue which Prof Minford calculated would be paid by the EU to the Treasury, he said.

He concluded: “So plus £641 billion for the UK versus minus £507 billion for the EU: it could not be more open and shut who least wants a breakdown. For the UK a breakdown would be a short term nuisance but a substantial economic gain; for the EU it is both a short term nuisance and a substantial economic loss.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/13/eu-lose-500bn-uk-gain-640bn-no-deal-brexit-economist-claims/

[Barrykearley]

Yup - seeya 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Haha: quoted from the head of something called the Eurosceptic Economists for Free Trade. So no vested interest there then. I bet he’s fun to sit next to at a dinner party!

[Barrykearley]

Just as balanced a view as all the pishe spewed out by the remoaing lot

[mayevora]

Shame. MP’s have just had their half term breaks cancelled so Brexit negotiations/arrangements can continue.(I was unaware MPs had half term breaks)

There has just been some MP in the House of Commons asking what the Government intend to offer regarding child support during this time -

Well how about joining the real World and the rest of the U.K. population and do what the rest of the entire Country has to do. - Sort yourself out some Childcare you self centred ignorant excuse for an MP.

[100th_Idiot]

1 hour ago, mayevora said:

Shame. MP’s have just had their half term breaks cancelled so Brexit negotiations/arrangements can continue.(I was unaware MPs had half term breaks)

There has just been some MP in the House of Commons asking what the Government intend to offer regarding child support during this time -

Well how about joining the real World and the rest of the U.K. population and do what the rest of the entire Country has to do. - Sort yourself out some Childcare you self centred ignorant excuse for an MP.

The half term break is a break from parliament but not necessarily from their constituency duties but on the issue of child care I absolutely agree with you Sort yourself the fuck out

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Just as balanced a view as all the pishe spewed out by the remoaing lot

Like any analysis and product reviews. Ignore the outliers

[Barrykearley]

[ChrisJ]

 http://www.thebrexitparty.org/

 

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I wonder if Donald Tusk uses the same Agent as Liam Neeson?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135

 

[Neal H]

I think he's feeling the pressure!