Brexit

[JG220]

Couldn't agree with you more @Steve V8. 

However, much better to influence from within than watch from the bench. 

[Barrykearley]

45 minutes ago, JG220 said:

No, you voted for out of everything, because that was your interpretation of what you were voting for. 

I've posted the links before, I can again if you want, but deals and trade deals were being put forward by the leave campaign before the referendum. That is why leave is the not same for everyone. 

RT news is a Russian state sponsored propaganda network, I'm not sure why you'd believe anything on there. 

in any event, i don't see much scope for riots whatever the outcome. We don't have the passion and aggression of the French  

Hang on - are you forgetting the leaflet the government delivered to every household 

[JG220]

No, there were problems on both sides of the campaigning. The Leave one had elements which broke the law. The remain one hasn't been proven to have done anything illegal, the but mass leaflet was no doubt morally questionable. 

In any event, i don't see how that is relevant to whether or not we should be listening to anything on RT given the evidence of Russian interference with the Trump and possibly Brexit vote. 

[Steve V8]

And there lies the problem...we have no influence, decisions are made by the select faceless unelected few, we just suffer the consequences.

[JG220]

4 minutes ago, Steve V8 said:

And there lies the problem...we have no influence, decisions are made by the select faceless unelected few, we just suffer the consequences.

That's not quite right. 

We have a veto which we have used and we have agreed with the vast majority of European legislation. Something like 95%. Hang on, let me get you the figures. 

Here you go:

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999

Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

This is counting votes in the EU Council of Ministers, which passes most EU lawsjointly with the European Parliament.

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by JG220

[Barrykearley]

Ahhh until the Lisbon treaty removes that very veto!! Which is soon I believe 

[JG220]

No,  thats not correct. 

I'd point you to here:

https://fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/

The UK's influence in Europe was actually on an upward trajectory since population size started determining voting power in 2014. 

In any event, I think you're referring to article 116 of the Lisbon treaty which gives the EU powers over veto for some taxes. 

The UK can still veto alone. 

[Steve V8]

@JG220 you pointed me there so I went for a little look, as interesting as it was, it completely contradicts your argument. The UK can only veto on certain laws such as implementation of EU taxes, Justice and EU budget, everything else requires with the backing of four member states or three holding 65% of EU population, otherwise it's overruled. 

Which led me to this page, which states that since 1996 UK ministers have opposed new legislation on 55 occasions and have been overruled 55 times, so what is the point of being there? 

I'd point you here;

https://fullfact.org/europe/how-often-does-eu-overrule-british-ministers/

EUROPEAN COURT 

For me, here lies another damn good reason to leave...it's hard enough to implement or prosecute through our own loopholed legal system, and when eventually justice does prevail, to have those decisions overturned by the European Court is a kick in the bollocks. The only human rights protected are those of terrorists and deviants. Lest we forget the 4 year battle to try to extradite our lovely hook handed hate preacher Abu Hamza, a fact Mrs May as home secretary knows oh so well.

 

[Barrykearley]

And right there is what most working folks know @Steve V8 that we are getting utterly fucked by our government and the EU.

come the revolution - things need to change 

and let’s not lose sight of the real reason the human rights act was initiated. It was to stop things like the holocaust from ever happening again. To stop governments becoming unaccountable....... hmm.

the human rights act has been utterly abused and simply isn’t fit for purpose. Frankly the eu commission and the eu Parliament without any question go against the human rights and democratic rights of every uk citizen 

[Steve V8]

6 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

come the revolution - things need to change 

And they will, it won't happen on March 29th but I think we'll see some drastic changes to the dynamics of British politics come the next election. 

I believe Nigel Farrage is hoping for a comeback with a lesser rightwing party, love him or hate him, he talks sence and backs it up with facts unlike the current crop of self serving liars. With no other realistic option for change, and with most voters having been shafted by their chosen parties, I think he sees an opportunity for a killing. Sorry but he has my vote already.

 

[Neal H]

Indeed. Unless this Parliament delivers on the result of the 2016 referendum, I won’t be voting for a mainstream political party again.

[jonwat]

On 24/01/2019 at 11:22, Kimbers said:

BBC 5 live again last night (Thought I'd give it another try). Interview with a London Bar owner.

Reporter: So you serve a lot of European Beers. It must worry you that you won't be able to get them in future.

Owner: No Not at all.

Reporter: ........stumped..... but you MUST be worried about it affecting your livelihood.

Owner: No not at all, my customers will still be here and my suppliers have said they will still deal with me.

Reporter: But it could mean more expensive beer and therefore less sales. You would be seriously affected

Owner: No, I'll just serve more UK beers if they put the prices up.

Reporter:.......... So as you can see Brexit could have an effect even on our beers......

Turned it off. Never listening again!

So very wrong claiming the BBC is Labour biased.

Grauniad.  

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, jonwat said:

So very wrong claiming the BBC is Labour biased.

Grauniad.  

It's not Labour biased at all, that is a terrible thing to say. It is left wing socialist and all things PC correct biased though. Oh, bugger, that's Labour under JC then. Damn, shot my own argument down in flames.....

[geartox]

just let me tell you a story.

a french reporter interviews a french winemaker near Bordeaux.  

reporter : are you worry about the brexit ?

winemaker : we sell wine to british since 800 years...

LOL

 

 

[Kimbers]

17 hours ago, jonwat said:

So very wrong claiming the BBC is Labour biased.

Grauniad.  

Lol, I actually don't think it's labour biased. I think its PC, Liberal Biased and Anti Brexit purely in the name of self interest, as they give the BBC a lot of money for "Program making".

 

[jonwat]

2 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

Lol, I actually don't think it's labour biased. I think its PC, Liberal Biased and Anti Brexit purely in the name of self interest, as they give the BBC a lot of money for "Program making".

I read an interview with John Humphrys where he said when he walked into work the morning after the referendum & everyone was completely shell shocked, they just could not believe we'd voted to leave. 

[Andyww]

Interesting the Daily Mail has completed its about-turn on Brexit. They reported the Honda Swindon closure today by blaming it on Brexit, not one single mention of the real reason which is the EU-Japan trade deal which means Japan no longer needs production in any EU country.

[Kimbers]

And most of their cars are over priced, old fashioned and high Co2. All the news except the BBC have said Honda have announced it is 100% nothing to do with Brexit. Whereas the BBC report it has nothing to do with Brexit and it's next headline is "Are the Japanese losing faith with the UK.....due to Brexit. 

[Andyww]

The Swindon Civic is indeed an old fashioned car. My wife has one, the screen rake and amount of front overhang make it quite outdated as a modern city car. But the build quality is outstanding though. Better than modern Mercs.

[Bibs]

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/opinion-why-brexit-not-factor-honda-swindon/

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

If Honda Swindon is only selling 32,000 cars to the entire EU each year, then there really isn't any point in Honda retaining 3500 jobs at Swindon with or without Brexit. They're clearly not a significant player in the EU marketplace at the moment, so they can easily supply European demand from Japan and the EU/Japan trade deals makes this easier still. To be honest it's probably just "convenient" timing to announce what they were going to do at Swindon anyway and divert attention from Honda's own failings.

And this is from a Remainer! I wonder if Toyota, Burnaston will be next?

[johnpwalsh]

We have had well below average snowfall this winter. Now why/how can we blame it on Brexit. Oh yes, we havent imported so much road salt, we can use that as an excuse.

[Barrykearley]

Wltp rules is causing mayhem - vw dealers confirmed last week - May delivery or there’s nowt until October!!

[Steve V8]

This is the result of the EU's underhand trade deal with Japan, designed specifically to undermine the UK's position in the event of a hard Brexit. It's basic economic sense that with the 10% tariff wiped out Japan can export direct to the EU without the need for a UK distribution centre. The EU once again cut off their noses to spite their faces, and will incur huge losses in tariff income. 

[100th_Idiot]

11 hours ago, Andyww said:

Interesting the Daily Mail has completed its about-turn on Brexit. They reported the Honda Swindon closure today by blaming it on Brexit, not one single mention of the real reason which is the EU-Japan trade deal which means Japan no longer needs production in any EU country.

That is true but when was that agreed. After the referendum result when the uk has no voice and in exchange for what? Tariff free sales of high speed trains into Japan?  Japanese cars are 1% of the EU market so no threat to EU car makers. Bigger issue for uk jobs which was easy to negotiate away.