Brexit

[Steve V8]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

@Buddsy just posted this on facebook. She gets it, Merkel doesn't seem impressed though!.

It's also critically important to remember that the EU are out to royal shaft our whole country to stop others from leaving as she reminds us at the beginning. Who are the EU to try to ruin us as an example to others, this isn't a school yard. 

 

She has hit the nail on the head. Every point raised, the reason to leave. If the EU had not got too big it's boots and adopted these policies, I for one would be happy to stay in. But until then we must get out.

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Interesting speech and worth watching just to see shots of Merkel's stoney face. But please remember that AfD is the new far right wing Party that is causing so much political turbulence in Germany, particularly in the former East German territories.  Her's is not the view of the vast majority of Germans.

So, we have the AfD in Germany. We have Hungary. We have poland. We have growing discord in France with the EU. And of course we have Italy who are threatening to sue the EU and vice versa.  Remind again of the benefits that staying in what could a Union that collapses in the next 5-10 years are?

Better we get out now and then avoid the massive bills and financial recriminations when it all comes tumbling down.

She may have been far right AfD, but she talks sense, and she presents it ina  calm, factual manner. She provides clear evidence of the earlier warnings and how, with them being ignored by the EU elite, they are seeing the repercussions predicted. Better the AfD's far right than our own looney socialist Labour leader and his party in the UK anyday who will do anything to get the Red Flag flying, and keep it flying, here.   Ypa!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes, the last thing we need is Chairman Corbyn at the helm of the Socialist Kingdom of Great Britain and (maybe not) Northern Ireland!

[Barrykearley]

It’s a very powerful speech - bet this isn’t reported anywhere in the UK.

the most interesting thing is if this were touted by the media it would be spun as a right wing racist bigoted view.

[RS blu]

when the British chose to leave the EU, in Italy we asked ourselves why. The British have managed to keep their money (the pound), we have always believed that England had a privileged place in the EU, maintaining its autonomy. Now I read this and I realize that many things that are not good are identical also in Italy. In 2012 in Italy we had a government that impoverished us, because this wanted the EU. I pay almost 800 euros tax a year  on the esprit ... and I can not drive it in the city in the winter season because it's euro 1.

I am personally  worried about an EU without England.  good luck

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by RS blu

[Barrykearley]

Benjamin Zephaniah is on question time - he’s contributed some fantastic sound bites tonight

[scotty435]

Will put my head above the parapet here, being a remainer and yes I am one of the 48% of the population that did so, as that figure change? if we are honest we don’t know. Will keep my opinion to my self why I thought this was wrong outcome and still do, but i respect democracy and we have to leave. My concern here is the extreme brexit views being posted on this thread are not hopeful to the thoughts of the many European friends we have in the forum. It was much better when we all had something in common to moan about, like the weekly special editions coming out of Hethel,  better than some of the Toxic views being posted on here, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, unlike some on here, just my thoughts for what it counts.

[Barrykearley]

I’m really not sure I have seen anything that I would refer to as toxic on here to be honest.

a frank exchange of views regarding an unelected super elite dictatorship which is stripping our country of its sovereignty - there’s definitely been plenty of that 👍

i hated the last labour government - but for me - I made the best of it and it was absolutely fine. That’s democracy 

[RS blu]

I do not think the EU is happy that England is leaving. Someone thinks it's the beginning of the end for the EU.

We have decided currently  to stay ,but EU have to change many things. We are forced to throw our oranges and we have to buy them in spain, we had to change our name to an old wine because a country from the east said that their wine is the genuine name. These are just a few examples.

However, if the EU fails it is a very bad thing. Europe is small and its states are even smaller. There are huge nations like China and India that are getting stronger, it will be very difficult to defend our interests if  we are not united.

I repeat, it 's very difficult for me to imagine the EU without England, I hope that someone in the EU wakes up before it is too late

[Andyww]

But the countries of Japan, S Korea, Australia, all of SE Asia, and many others are doing just fine and would never sign up to a union such as the EU.

They do have trade ties, along the lines of the original Common Market which we voted to join.

[JG220]

8 hours ago, scotty435 said:

Will put my head above the parapet here, being a remainer and yes I am one of the 48% of the population that did so, as that figure change? if we are honest we don’t know. Will keep my opinion to my self why I thought this was wrong outcome and still do, but i respect democracy and we have to leave. My concern here is the extreme brexit views being posted on this thread are not hopeful to the thoughts of the many European friends we have in the forum. It was much better when we all had something in common to moan about, like the weekly special editions coming out of Hethel,  better than some of the Toxic views being posted on here, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, unlike some on here, just my thoughts for what it counts.

I think we might be the only remoaners on here

I still think its all going to go away. 

Deal gets voted down > Cons Brexit loonies still can't get enough votes > No General election forces referendum > UK votes to remain with 58% of the vote.

[JG220]

this is (and the full report is) worth a read 

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8424#fullreport

[C8RKH]

39 minutes ago, Andyww said:

But the countries of Japan, S Korea, Australia, all of SE Asia, and many others are doing just fine and would never sign up to a union such as the EU.

They do have trade ties, along the lines of the original Common Market which we voted to join.

Agreed. There are so many who believe that when we leave we lose the ability to trade. This is just not true.  

I appreciate some of the comments from @RS blu, and I agree that the EU needs to change but the issue is that of course Turkey's won't ever vote for Xmas and so you cannot rely on the bozo's in Brussels to drive the reform and changes required.  The German AfD lady above was right, countries/nations and their Governments need to take back the executive control from the EU.  That does not mean the EU does not exist, but what it means is that the key policy decisions and direction is driven then by the nations, as opposed to the "committee". 

The whole issue here, and maybe where some of the "toxicity" comes from, certainly for me, is that there seems to be a complete miss-understanding as to how the EU really operates, who really pulls the strings, and how policy is really made and enforced. It is probably one of the most undemocratic institutions in the world in reality and yet a large proportion of the UK seems to be perfectly willing to trade democracy for what is actually very little.

Freedom of movement - you'll still be able to go to Europe on holiday etc. You might need a visa, but looking at the large number of Russians who seem to manage perfectly going to Italy, Spain, France etc. on holiday it won't be a bloody hardship in reality

Free movement of goods - OK, so the stuff we buy from the EU will be slightly more expensive as it will have a tariff added.  Is that really such a bad thing when like with @RS blu and the oranges in Italy we then have THE CHOICE who we buy from and what we buy.  Do people realise that the price of say banana's is artificially inflated within the EU to "protect" the growers in the Canaries and Spain?  We could get cheaper, and better banana's (the stupid rule son shape and curvature are there to ensure only "home grown" banana's will comply) from other parts of the world including our old trading partners in the West Indies/Caribbean etc.  Also, if European cars are more expensive then maybe we'll buy more cheaper and better 'Murican ones to keep our friends like @xxaarraa happy!  :)  I would not be sad to see less Audi's, BMW's, Merc's etc on the road in the UK.

Health - we'll get all the drugs we need from whomever we want. The pharma countries will sell us what they can, they have little scruples and will always provide where the ability to pay is proven and the NHS, as single customer, is a HUGE customer for them on a global, not just a European scale. Also, by returning control of our fishing waters we will better manage the fish stocks in our rich waters and with care we could provide a reduction in animal meat consumption and switch to a healthier proportion of fish in our diets.  The Europeans will want to buy our fish so we have a market we can sell too, the quality speaks for itself so tough if they need to pay a wee bit more for it. But then, if we are not paying an EU subsidy then we can pay the tariff for our fish exporters so the status quo remains re cost and quality but WE get to CONTROL the supply of our superior product.  Sounds simple to me.

We can go on and on, knocking down the fear walls that have been put up.  

Another main reason for the toxicity on here is, quite frankly, that those who voted for Brexit are seeing, before their very own eyes, the actions of the Remainers and our politicians that are dismantling all attempts at an orderly exit and positively frustrating the democratic will of the people being undertaken.

I frankly don't give a shit if the vote was "only" 48:52, or that 28% of the people could not be arsed to vote. That is democracy - you have the choice to vote. Your vote counts. If you don't use it you lose.  

So, like a lot of people, my anger rises in proportion to my frustration at the blatant tactics that have been and are being deployed to frustrate the democratic will of the people of this Great Nation of ours.

Apologies if my views upset anyone. They are just my views.

 

[Andyww]

Stuff we buy from Europe will not be more expensive unless we decide to impose tariffs which would be a strange thing to do.

We will never need a visa to go on holiday in Europe.

[C8RKH]

I slightly disagree @Andyww. If we have no deal and our goods to the EU are subject to Tariffs then we should reciprocate in the first instance. Over time we can decide if we want to do anything different.

Also, with regards to holidays, I do believe we will need a VISA but I expect it will be a "one time" Visa that is for all 27 EU countries on say a 12 month validity period. Again, this is no hardship! I need a visa for Turkey and it's no issue...

[Steve V8]

53 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Stuff we buy from Europe will not be more expensive unless we decide to impose tariffs which would be a strange thing to do.

We will never need a visa to go on holiday in Europe.

I don't understand your reasoning with this Andy.

If the EU imposes tariffs on UK goods we need to reciprocate in identical measures. Failure to do this will have the EU laughing all the way to the bank while UK businesses suffer.

If the EU is prepared to cut off it's nose to spite it's face with tariffs we need to make it just as difficult for them, pressure from EU business leaders will prevail eventually, remember with the huge trade deficit they have far more to lose than us.

So initially if you are determined to buy an overpriced BMW you will be worse off. So buy a Jag instead.

 

 

[Andyww]

We would not be allowed to impose tariffs under WTO rules unless we apply equally to all countries. 

But yes sure, if the EU impose tariffs we can reciprocate, on a global basis, but we should at least start out without any.

There are many "no deal" advocates who are proposing this approach. One exception is James Dyson who proposes imposing max tariffs and then the extra revenue which the chancellor gains (approx 12 Billion a year) can be spent as the government sees fit, maybe the NHS. I dont really agree with this. At the end of the day a tariff is just an extra tax like VAT.

 

[C8RKH]

3 minutes ago, Andyww said:

We would not be allowed to impose tariffs under WTO rules unless we apply equally to all countries. 

But yes sure, if the EU impose tariffs we can reciprocate, on a global basis, but we should at least start out without any.

There are many "no deal" advocates who are proposing this approach.

 

That makes sense

[PaulCP]

I see the arrogant EU Dictators can’t just keep their traps shut again. Why can’t they let the U.K. go through it’s own process without constant interference.

Tusk just issued his latest threat, “If this deal is rejected in the Commons, we are left with... an alternative: no deal or no Brexit at all. I want to reassure you that the EU is prepared for every scenario."

Are the rest of the EU so blind not to see that the EU’s leading dictators all have German/French blood in their veins. Why are they unelected, because Germany & France fear any other country being involved in running their cosy EU arrangement.

[C8RKH]

14 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

I see the arrogant EU Dictators can’t just keep their traps shut again. Why can’t they let the U.K. go through it’s own process without constant interference.

Tusk just issued his latest threat, “If this deal is rejected in the Commons, we are left with... an alternative: no deal or no Brexit at all. I want to reassure you that the EU is prepared for every scenario."

Are the rest of the EU so blind not to see that the EU’s leading dictators all have German/French blood in their veins. Why are they unelected, because Germany & France fear any other country being involved in running their cosy EU arrangement.

Not blind, just passed out drunk on the "freebies" that flow so freely in  Brussels.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

1 hour ago, Andyww said:

One exception is James Dyson who proposes imposing max tariffs and then the extra revenue which the chancellor gains (approx 12 Billion a year) can be spent as the government sees fit, maybe the NHS. I dont really agree with this. At the end of the day a tariff is just an extra tax like VAT.

Let's hope arch-patriot Dyson brings all of his manufacturing back to the UK after Brexit, rather than continuing to exploit cheap Asian labour. Not holding my breath though.

The biggest winner if we have import tariffs will be the Civil Service. That will be where the money gets spent.

[Barrykearley]

4 hours ago, PaulCP said:

Tusk just issued his latest threat, “If this deal is rejected in the Commons, we are left with... an alternative: no deal or no Brexit at all. I want to reassure you that the EU is prepared for every scenario."

Well if we get cheated out of brexit - My thanks must go out to sadiq Khan for getting rid of those horrible water cannons. It means when we are rioting in the streets of London, flipping over cars and burning the Houses of Parliament we won’t have to face getting wet.

[Barrykearley]

[ChrisJ]

https://comewheatmay.com/

 

[jonwat]

Report in today's Times:

Remember the scare stories? Many bankers, politicians and analysts predicted that Brexit would prompt an exodus of financial services jobs and businesses, weakening the City’s dominance as a global financial centre.

Yet with less than four months to go before Britain is set to leave the EU, banks and financial services companies are looking for more new office space in the City than at any time since 2015, according to JLL, the property services company.

The sector is actively looking for a combined 2.4 million sq ft of office space, 37 per cent of total demand and higher than any other sector. Many of those requirements are driven by lease expiries, but some represent an expansion.