Formula One

[PaulCP]

@C8RKH Yep you was right, stewards and FIA don’t have a backbone.

So, if I read things correctly:-

1. It is now ok to continue to race off the track of you are being overtaken on the outside of a corner provided that there is no contact

2. If the cars do touch it will always be the car that was attempting an overtaking manoeuvre that will be at fault.

3. This part of the FIA rules no longer applies. “Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited."
 

 Hence we now have F1 as being that ‘demolition derby’ that Verstappen used to think it was.

I read last night that Verstappen said in an interview with BBC 5Live yesterday that in his view everything was ok because no contact was made.

It would also appear that Horner Spice will continue his campaign to prove that the Mercedes rear wing is illegal, so the saga is to be continued

[TdM]

I can near guarantee you that someone else will try the same trick and get a penalty for it now.

Consistently, since Max joined, he has been doing things that other drivers consider outside of the laws and dangerous and not been punished. Max and his fans consider this to be what makes him a great driver, by that token, the San Marino football team can adopt Vinnie Jones and some extremely sharp studs and win the world cup (OK that might be stretching reality a little but you get the point).

[PaulCP]

3 hours ago, Techyd said:

 

Seems to me like the real competition is between two people: Christian Horner and Toto Wolff - and I think Toto may only just have realised that himself, 

In the last Netflix ‘behind the scenes’ series Horner’s frustration (or jealousy) at always coming second best to Wolf came across loud and clear. He will stop at nothing to beat him & I think we have been seeing this over the past 2-3 months.

I don’t think Toto Wolf or Bottas would play dirty with Verstappen by pushing the apparent new rules created by the FIA today to their limits but I certainly wouldn’t rule out Horner doing so with Perez.

There is only one big loser today and that is the integrity of F1.

I only hope that the new nursery rhyme that I was teaching my grandson today comes to fruition:

”Little Chris Horner, sat in his Corner, eating his humble pie………..”

[Techyd]

Exactly - and he had that feud with Renault boss Cyril Abiteboul, which I never quite understood but ended with Renault poaching Riccardo, and Horner was fuming with that, I am sure of it.

 

I see in the news LeClerc has already said he'll be changing his driving; in fact, something he's already had to do when up against Verstappen - was it Austria 2019 when they clashed without punishment for Max? I distinctly remember that being a sad for Charles when he realised driving fair didn't come out on top - you could see it in his eyes during an interview.

[Bibs]

[pete]

The best solution to this would be to bring back gravel traps.

[Frickin_idiot]

7 hours ago, Techyd said:

If we compare this to the Silverstone incident, the situation is reversed here, only Lewis avoided the accident in Brazil and Max did not in Silverstone.  I'm pretty sure Horner was a nasty piece of work in his comments about Lewis that day.

Seems to me like the real competition is between two people: Christian Horner and Toto Wolff - and I think Toto may only just have realised that himself, being a far more decent bloke, he and Mercedes I think are currently on the back foot to Horner, who is playing the behind the scenes game - there has to be something to explain why Verstappen is not being picked up on his driving etiquette.

My hope is that this isn't distracting the team from focusing on bring an update or spot-on setup /plan to Qatar.  I would love to see Lewis take an eighth championship

 

Spot on about Horner. 

[scotty435]

5 hours ago, C8RKH said:

It feels like there is only 1 rule for this year. Max must win the WDC!  Remember he is no spring chicken anymore and after 7 years. Funny everyone regards him as a "young driver" but he has been around now for 7 years....   That is why F1 has decided Max must win. There are 7 current F1 drivers who are younger than Max, soon to be 8!  Not yet 25, I believe he has the longest period of "seat" time of all drivers under 25.

When you look at it, I struggle to see where the hype comes from, the results just have not been there. What has been there is "excitement" as he risks his own and others drivers with "hard" racing tactics, usually questionable in its legality, but he usually gets away with it, unlike any of the other drivers.

Totally agree with the struggle you see about where the  hype comes from about Max, he as never won a championship even in the lower category’s. Lewis came into f1 with championships under his belt and with probably the best driver in F1 at the time Alonso as a teammate, beat him in is rookie year something Alonso as never got over and what he did in qualifying in Hungary 2007 his something that is cut from the same cloth of dirty tactics that you get from Verstappen. Will Max ever change? Well he will probably win his first championship in his long motoring racing career this year will it change as a driver and a person probably not he will will always leave that nasty taste in your mouth for true f1 enthusiast. The sport as become even more toxic than even football, thanks one team and its senior management and its No1 driver who strangely in some peoples eyes is the best F1 driver ever. Thanks Christian, Helmut and Max, lets hope the junior categorys are seeing through what you stand for. Flavio Briatore was a nasty piece of work in his time in F1 but those mentioned above make him look like angel.

[Frickin_idiot]

Have a look at Verstappen Senior and his off track “antics”. Everything falls into place.

[TdM]

Don't worry everyone, the stewards have cleared it up! They are inconsistent and have no intention of worrying about it.

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/20/fia-told-drivers-to-expect-different-decisions-with-different-stewards-hamilton/

[PaulCP]

Well it is sometimes called the F1 circus and now it is turning into Billy Smart’s best!

Just wondering who will end up playing Coco the clown🤔

[exeterjeep]

Lets see what the stewards do with this..

After qualifying, Verstappen was issued with a summons by the stewards for allegedly not respecting double-waved yellow flags at the end of the final session, when Gasly was slowing with a punctured front tyre.

The hearing will be at 13:00 local time (10:00 GMT), so there will be no decision on Saturday.

 

[TdM]

That's usually a slam dunk if they have called him in. Pretty clear if he slowed down or not

[exeterjeep]

He set a faster lap time on that last lap  -  5 place grid penalty possible.

[EldonZ]

You would think that they would have to penalize Max for going faster when double yellows were present even if for a brief period. But as has been said, "This is the F1 circus!"

Later,
Eldon

[drdoom]

Regarding MV, I've been pleased for the most part observing an up and coming talent, awaiting his equipment's evolution into something competitive. On the other hand I agree with criticisms leveled here on his ruthlessness, and consequently quite pleased to see LH on top form. Wouldn't bet against Lewis for the Championship at this point and won't be the least saddened for Max, he's got some way to go in terms of maturity. As for 2022, look for George Russel to deliver top results in the Merc, so won't make life any easier for Max. Will be taking it all in live at the Red Bull Ring, barring another pandemic catastrophe. 

Cheers 

[pete]

Hamilton a clear favourite to win championship with bookmakers.

[TdM]

Verstappen a clear favourite for the championship with the FIA though.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, TdM said:

Verstappen a clear favourite for the championship with the FIA though.

I think the only thing Verstappen is a clear favourite for is punting Lewis off track, even if that ends Max's race. I am sure that was his intention in Brazil but Lewis was wise to that and did not turn in to risk it. There's hard racing then there is blatant cheating and then their is Karen Horner to contend with - he really does across as a smarmy little so and so these days. I'm willing to donate £50 to "Help for Heroes" if I'm wrong and Verstappen does not try to, or succeed, in punting off Lewis in the next 3 races.  The real issue for me is what will the FIA do then, as I suspect they will find an excuse to call it a "racing incident".

The one thing I will finish with is that I think Massi's position is now untenable, given his "excuse" yesterday that different Stewards can interpret the rules how they like.  It's a bit like the LTA saying that at Wimbledon individual lines judge can decide where the line is as they go, so whether the ball was in or out.  It beggars believe that he thought that uttering a pathetic response like that would be acceptable! If the FIA had any decency they would remove him. 

[exeterjeep]

Yippee... Max get 5 place grid penalty - that puts him more in the mix with some other drivers at the start.  I bet Horner is seething.

[PaulCP]

Yep, Horner is having his usual whinging session.

According to Horner, “Max didn’t see it and the track is wide enough anyway so why a penalty. Also it could have been a rogue Marshall who stuck his flag out before being instructed to”

Meanwhile Bottas is quoted as saying “I didn’t see it but it was a yellow so I’ll just take the penalty”

Hence, according to Horner’s analogy, he would tell the court when challenging a speeding conviction that it’s ok then to drive on a dual carriageway at 70mph when the speed limit is 50mph because the road is wide enough and you didn’t see the 50mph sign.

So, Bottas 6th, Mad Max 7th on the grid. You know what to do Bottas when Max tries to overtake you on the approach to a corner, but make sure you keep him behind you after the start!

[exeterjeep]

3 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

So, Bottas 6th, Mad Max 7th on the grid. You know what to do Bottas when Max tries to overtake you on the approach to a corner, but make sure you keep him behind you after the start!

and for the whole race... not likely though. Treat max like max treats others....

[C8RKH]

Verstappen on the best side of the track for the start, will be interesting to see how this one pans out. He'll be fired up for sure so should be an exciting race.

3 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

and for the whole race... not likely though. Treat max like max treats others....

Amen.

I have a feeling that the gloves may be off with Max for the other drivers several of whom are pretty miffed his exploits in Brazil were not penalised.

[exeterjeep]

Well, not as incident filled as I expected apart from the tyres, but a good controlled race from Lewis. And still Bottas fails to impress - unlucky with the tyre though.

[C8RKH]

9 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

And still Bottas fails to impress

Despite what people say it's not just about the car.