Formula One

[C8RKH]

Verstappen seems to have a very short memory. Hmmmm, I think no penalty from Brazil was a bloody big present!  See Horner's mouth has gotten him into trouble now too.

Max Verstappen takes dig at FIA after grid penalty - 'I never get any presents'

[pete]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Despite what people say it's not just about the car.

 

So you think Bottas has the same engine as Hamilton?

[C8RKH]

Hamilton was using an "old" engine, not the new one he had last week, so yes, I believe they had the same engine, Bottas' engine may have been 1 race older, possibly 2, but no more.

What do you think Pete?

Also, the engine is one part of the car and each driver will have their own preference re setup. Maybe Lewis just sets the car up better?  A bit like Max and Perez? Both have the same car. Struggling with your point to be honest.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bravo73

[exeterjeep]

50 minutes ago, pete said:

So you think Bottas has the same engine as Hamilton?

It would not help Mercedes win the championship to give him a 'poor' engine. He had a new engine a few races ago, just does not seem able to get the best out of the whole car package. Would think that GR would have done better.

[pete]

"Struggling with your point to be honest. "  Wasn't a point was a question which you answered

[C8RKH]

It was a pointed question. But whatever.

The sarcastic answer would have been no. As two cars, at the same time, cannot share an engine, so of course they are different. 🤣

[pete]

Thanks for your input

[C8RKH]

You're welcome.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bravo73

[electro_boy]

Not a great race to watch while hangry, I was shouting at Bottas through the TV to stop being so slow and overtake more cars.  Both in his first session when it wasn't clear he was on a 1 stop strategy and possibly looking after the tyres a bit and after the puncture where he didn't appear to make much progress through the field.

Good day for Lewis but I think Toto would have wanted more points for Merc and will be disappointed in Bottas' performance even considering the puncture.  Unfortunately also a great day for RB and their damage limitation for the drivers competition and catching up for the constructors champ.  I was really hoping Merc would be able to extend the lead a little bit this race.

I'd like someone who knows their F1 Apples to do a analysis into Bottas' drive.  Was he actually doing a pretty good job balancing tyre life and speed for a decent final position and just got scuppered by the puncture.  Or even considering his 1 stop strategy was he a bit slow?  Because thats how I interpreted his race.  

I think its honourable of Merc to keep Bottas in place till the end of the season but you have to wonder how much larger the lead in the constructors champ would be if they had put George in for these last few races.  Can't they fake a positive COVID test for Bottas so he has to isolate next two races and get George in the car.  It'll be a win win for everyone, well apart from Red Bull!

I started this season being a neutral supporter (well life long Williams supporter but then these days they're not really doing much so I'm essentially a neutral), but as the season comes to and end I'm becoming more and more of an anti-Red Bull supporter aka a Merc supporter! 

[C8RKH]

Big Williams fan here @electro_boy, well more legacy Williams fan from Frank's days as liked his approach to racing.  I think Bottas is a really fast driver, qualifying and his Poles can attest to that. He just does not seem to be able to convert his qualifying pace and speed (which is considerable) into the race.  I just do not think he has that "winning" edge or mentality. Either that, or he just bottles it when other cars are racing around him.

I'm really intrigued as to what has happened to Ricciardo. It was not that long ago (well it seems like that) that he had as much hype around him as Verstappen has now. He was the bright new thing on the circuit. But he just looks ordinary now. Norris looks like he is driving a car with an extra 100hp to Daniels.  What's happened?

[electro_boy]

Yes amen to how amazing Williams racing were under Frank's stewardship.  Racing was in his blood, he lived and breathed racing.

Good point re Ricciardo, in the Red Bull days he seemed very fast and was on par with Max.  In his Renault days it looked like the car was holding him back and then when he joined Maclaren it looked like he just needed some time to get used to the car and he would be up and running but I don't think that has happened.  He's got a couple lucky results and good performances but in general he's not been anywhere near the pace of Norris.  I'm sure Norris is a very good driver indeed and will hopefully become very successful in years to come but Ricciardo should be able to be in the same ball park.

He seems like a good guy and has showed some amazing talent, it would be good for him and the sport if he can find some form back and start challenging people higher up the order a bit more.

[PaulCP]

A good insight into Horner’s rantings over the weekend here, it appears as though the FIA may be close to having heard enough from him. (Worth reading in full but the main bits below)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59368634

There was more provocation for Mercedes in Qatar, with the complaints from Red Bull about the legality of their car turned up a notch, if anything, even from Brazil.

But in the end Red Bull's outspokenness, casting aspersions on their rivals and on the officials, caught them out.

After Verstappen was given a five-second grid penalty for ignoring double waved yellow caution flags in qualifying, his team boss Christian Horner gave a contentious interview which was a step too far for governing body the FIA, and he was hauled before the stewards to explain himself.

Amid this torrent of accusations from Red Bull, it was ironic that Horner himself ended up in hot water with officials. 

When Verstappen's penalty was announced on Sunday a couple of hours before the race, Horner went on television and blamed the yellow flag on a "rogue marshal".

Through the weekend, Horner gave a series of interviews casting doubts on the legality of the Mercedes rear wing, demanding something be done about it, and having a pop at Wolff.

Red Bull's accusations centre on their belief that the main plane of the Mercedes rear wing has been flexing backwards above a certain speed, reducing drag. The believe scrape marks on the wing end-plates prove this. And Verstappen even says they have video evidence. But there has been no protest as yet.

Wolff says Red Bull are "seeing ghosts". And governing body the FIA introduced a new load test in Qatar to check this out. It had no regulatory value; it was part of trials the FIA are running ahead of next season. But the Mercedes wing - the same one they used in Brazil, they say, unchanged - passed it easily.

On Friday, the pair engaged in tense and bad-tempered news conference, in which Horner repeated his accusations that Mercedes' straight-line speed advantage in Brazil was "not normal", threatened to protest the car if Red Bull saw again what they believed to be an illegal rear wing, and accused Wolff of being affected by the pressure.

One team boss not involved in the title fight has described Horner's claims as to the speed off-set between Hamilton's car and the others as he came through the field at Interlagos as "the usual Red Bull BS".

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, electro_boy said:

He seems like a good guy and has showed some amazing talent, it would be good for him and the sport if he can find some form back and start challenging people higher up the order a bit more.

Totally agree. I would say when he was in RB (before Max) he was even more impressive than Max as he raced hard and CLEAN and some of his late braking overtake moves were mesmerizing.   Right now it is all about Max and Lewis, but I think from next year it could be about Max, Lewis, George, Llando, Charles...  A lot of young talent and the new format could really open things up a bit.

[pete]

https://f1i.com/news/426060-ricciardos-evening-in-qatar-thwarted-by-false-fuel-readings.html.          Riccardo's explanation

[pete]

https://sportitnow.com/f1-news-bottas-claims-his-car-different-to-hamilton/

[jimichanga]

Without Max Verstappen this would be one of the most boring seasons ever. Big fan of LH since 2007 but he takes the prize for the dirtiest and most dangerous piece of driving this season hands down.

If Max was as ruthless as Prost, Senna and Schumacher he would be taking Hamilton out while he still has a lead in the WDC. Right now it looks like only way Red Bull can win the titles.

Edited November 24, 2021 by jimichanga

[C8RKH]

If you're refering to Silverstone then that's your opinion and your entitled to it. My opinion is your talking bollocks and if Max had taken the action Lewis did in Brazil then there would have been no coming together.

Max seems to revel in his "hard driving" reputation. That tells me all I need to know.

[scotty435]

55 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

Without Max Verstappen this would be one of the most boring seasons ever. Big fan of LH since 2007 but he takes the prize for the dirtiest and most dangerous piece of driving this season hands down.

If Max was as ruthless as Prost, Senna and Schumacher he would be taking Hamilton out while he still has a lead in the WDC. Right now it looks like only way Red Bull can win the titles.

Same can be said without Lewis it would be one of the most boring seasons ever and regarding dirty driving Verstappen was obviously looking for contact at Brazil just like he was at Monza, its something he seems to strife on the thought of being invisible so yes it’s obvious given the slightest opportunity he would take Lewis out and thats the difference from a multiple championship winning driver and one that’s never won a championship in his entire career. The most successful driver in F1 history as the ability to read the moment and jump out the way of a manoeuvre that was reckless attempt to take him out the race. Sorry haven’t got a clue what you are talking about dirtiest most dangerous piece of driving all year, Max needs to take a lesson from a multiple world champion then one day he might win something.

[C8RKH]

Interesting interviews yesterday. Lewis talks about being a clean driver to protect his legacy in the future. Max talks about how winning the WDC once is all that matters because then "you've done it" so any additional WDC wins don't matter. Just found that quite sad really.

[jimichanga]

So this isn’t a discussion about F1 then just an anti Max Verstappen hate group? That’s way more sad than anything going on in F1. 

[Chillidoggy]

 

Surely, an “anti Max Verstappen hate group” is in favour of Max?

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, jimichanga said:

So this isn’t a discussion about F1 then just an anti Max Verstappen hate group? That’s way more sad than anything going on in F1. 

No. To have a discussion you normally have an interaction, often with different views and perspectives. To describe it as "hate" is pretty strong too. 

Often in a discussion someone may call out something as bullshit, usually what happens is the other party then doubles their effort to prove their point / win over or attempt to sway over the other party.

So if you want a discussion great. But don't get all pithy and start throwing "hate" statements around. That's Karen behaviour.

This thread and the discussions covers F1. Not just the Max and Lewis show.

[exeterjeep]

1 hour ago, jimichanga said:

So this isn’t a discussion about F1 then just an anti Max Verstappen hate group? That’s way more sad than anything going on in F1. 

Well I suppose this about F1, but this year there is such a concentration of interest between the 2. Maybe next year there will be loads of views about GR when he starts at Merc, and very little messages about VB and his performance at Alfa.

Hope there is a tribute for Kimi coming up to his last race.

[Bravo73]

 

[C8RKH]

I don't think Alonso has ever got over being beaten by a young Hamilton as he can't stop squealing like a pig about him. I do wish this has been would just retire quietly.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/formula1/fernando-alonso-lewis-hamilton-engine-usage-b1966721.html