For Auction - The Esprit Limited Collection

[exeterjeep]

3 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Give me a couple of track runs in it - I’ll bust the gearbox no problem 😆

What about the clutch as well.

[Barrykearley]

Never broken one of those 💪 

done two sets of second synchro rings and a CWP set though.

[Giniw]

(With which one? The v8?)

[Escape]

13 hours ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Yes it is Filip as I sold it to the seller years ago, the advert is not right though as he was hacked and the car keeps coming up for sale, I messaged him about it a few times.

Dave  

Thanks Dave, I thought it sounded too good to be true...

We should probably report the ad.

[Barrykearley]

8 hours ago, Giniw said:

(With which one? The v8?)

CWP on V8

2nd synchro on S4 and S4s - actually the dog teeth on the back of the gear smashes off.

[exeterjeep]

57 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

actually the dog teeth on the back of the gear smashes off.

Thought the dog teeth were in the passenger footwell.

[Gln.co]

Looking at the current bids vs time left I fear quite a few of these won’t hit the mark in terms of reserve.

[Giniw]

Indeed: red S1

https://themarket.co.uk/en/listings/lotus/esprit-s1/42040a20-1e7d-45ab-bb99-3ebf013d6939

£31300 but reserve not met

[Barrykearley]

On 23/08/2021 at 20:52, Barrykearley said:

The GT cars always seem to struggle value wise - I’ve seen a few but never seen one fetch much more than an S4 would. My guess is £28k for that.

Well - £26750. No one can say I was under estimating it.

[Barrykearley]

So - to sum up so far

Red S1 - £31300 reserve not met

Green S4 GT - £26750 reserve not met

JPS #21 - £63000 reserve not met

 

 

 

[Fridge]

3 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

So - to sum up so far

Red S1 - £31300 reserve not met

Green S4 GT - £26750 reserve not met

JPS #21 - £63000 reserve not met

 

 

 

£60,000 (or thereabouts after seller's fees) is quite a good price for a JPS.

[Gln.co]

On the assumption that the reserves are set by guidance form The Market I’d be rather frustrated as the seller - no sales to date and I can’t see the Sport 350 (8 hour to go) to get anywhere near the 70k reserve being it’s been sat at 42k for the best part of a week.

If the reserves are firmly on instruction from the seller then unfortunately he / she may have been being a little optimistic. 

[Mark Blanchard]

26 minutes ago, Fridge said:

£60,000 (or thereabouts after seller's fees) is quite a good price for a JPS.

I agree.  It's still an S2 at the end of the day, although a very pretty one. 

Didn't seem that long ago you could pickup an S2 for £4k to £5k.  I had a few sellers begging me to buy them too.  A nice gold one in Baskingstoke and a red S2 in North London.

[Fridge]

3 minutes ago, Mark Blanchard said:

I agree.  It's still an S2 at the end of the day, although a very pretty one. 

Didn't seem that long ago you could pickup an S2 for £4k to £5k.  I had a few sellers begging me to buy them too.  A nice gold one in Baskingstoke and a red S2 in North London.

Yes, but things move on. I bet if you considered it carefully "not too long ago" could be easily 8-10 years ago. Also the condition of those cars may not have been equivalent to any of the recent S2's which have sold in the high £20,000's.

And the fact that the "World Championship" is a limited edition has a factor also in the classic car market, where rarity is held in high regard, as well as originality. Where I think this example scored - if the flowery auction descriptions are to believed. They are not always accurate I have found.

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Fridge

[Mark Blanchard]

2 hours ago, Fridge said:

Yes, but things move on. I bet if you considered it carefully "not too long ago" could be easily 8-10 years ago. Also the condition of those cars may not have been equivalent to any of the recent S2's which have sold in the high £20,000's.

And the fact that the "World Championship" is a limited edition has a factor also in the classic car market, where rarity is held in high regard, as well as originality. Where I think this example scored - if the flowery auction descriptions are to believed. They are not always accurate I have found.

Yes, the S2 chassis's weren't galvanized so all sorts of gremlins lay under them.  

I guess my point is the JPS wasn't that different to a standard S2 and it's mind boggling to think a couple of decals, badges, stripes and nice trim can command so much more than a standard S2.  I'd have grabbed that £60k in a heart beat.

[Fridge]

5 minutes ago, Mark Blanchard said:

Yes, the S2 chassis's weren't galvanized so all sorts of gremlins lay under them.  

I guess my point is the JPS wasn't that different to a standard S2 and it's mind boggling to think a couple of decals, badges, stripes and nice trim can command so much more than a standard S2.  I'd have grabbed that £60k in a heart beat.

Yes, I know what you mean, but that's the classic car market for you. Similarly why pay more for an S1 when later cars have all the improvements through further development? However it is often, but not always, the case that the first of a series commands a premium due to a number of factors.

The JPS also has a much improved interior trim over the standard S2. One of the best IMO. Interior trim has always been a let down for me, even when looking at these cars when new decades ago. Only the Sport 300 has a trim I'd be truly happy with.

[Mark Blanchard]

44 minutes ago, Fridge said:

Yes, I know what you mean, but that's the classic car market for you. Similarly why pay more for an S1 when later cars have all the improvements through further development? However it is often, but not always, the case that the first of a series commands a premium due to a number of factors.

The JPS also has a much improved interior trim over the standard S2. One of the best IMO. Interior trim has always been a let down for me, even when looking at these cars when new decades ago. Only the Sport 300 has a trim I'd be truly happy with.

20 years ago, all I wanted was an Esprit S2 in red, with the black valance (like the ad "How to say it all without saying a word").  I must have looked at 8 cars at the time. I do remember the occasional disparaging comment they used to get from other Esprit owners with S4s / V8s at car events.  They were the "starter" Esprit, supposedly they didn't look as good as the S1 and they didn't have the improvements of the S3, so they were generally unloved and many fell into disrepair.  I remember Club Lotus Chairman Graham Arnold speaking to the audience at the Team Esprit Day, unfairly berating them saying some of them fell apart when being driven.

But as you say things move on and now people are seeing them for the stunning cars they really are.  It's nice to see them being restored and commanding the prices they are.

Unfortunately I will never own an S2 as I'd need to chop 12 inches off my legs to fit in one.

[Giniw]

13 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

So - to sum up so far

Red S1 - £31300 reserve not met

Green S4 GT - £26750 reserve not met

JPS #21 - £63000 reserve not met

 

 

 

I reckon the buyers are keeping all their money for the S4s.

[Giniw]

15 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

So - to sum up so far

Red S1 - £31300 reserve not met

Green S4 GT - £26750 reserve not met

JPS #21 - £63000 reserve not met

 

 

 

Silver Sport 350 - £44,500 reserve not met

[pete]

True values?

[top-plumber]

7 hours ago, Giniw said:

Silver Sport 350 - £44,500 reserve not met

Reserve not met..... or right buyer not found? 

[Chillidoggy]

I would never buy an Esprit from an auction.

[Fridge]

10 hours ago, Giniw said:

Silver Sport 350 - £44,500 reserve not met

 

2 hours ago, top-plumber said:

Reserve not met..... or right buyer not found? 

It's got to be noted that Richard Hammond's identical car sold very well at auction just last month. I assume this car was in similar condition?

Though this auction site is quite new, there was plenty of marketing of this collection prior to opening, unlike the stand alone S1. The site has also sold similar cars in recent months too.

Personally I felt that the auction was very much over egged, with grandiose descriptions and expectations to match. The estimates overblown and appear to be highly speculative. These, when combined with the inaccuracies or omissions, which were probably known within this niche market, for me undermined the authority of those running the auction.

The fact that the 'JPS' reached a good price, but didn't even cover the reserve, suggests to me that the seller was either badly advised or has overvalued this vehicle in particular.

As you'd expect from online and socially distanced auctions today, the quality and quantity of photos are good, though repetitive with some duplicates. However they do omit some of the details suggested by the descriptions in some cases. When expecting a high hammer price you need to put the work in to these aspects.

It'll be interesting to see what the flagship cars achieve.

[Giniw]

3 hours ago, top-plumber said:

Reserve not met..... or right buyer not found? 

Sure, it's highly dependant on who was watching the auction, especially for this niche market.

You just have to find two motivated unwise guys to end up with a very high price! (reminds me a few auctions I wanted to bid on on ebay ^^')

2 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:

I would never buy an Esprit from an auction.

Wouldn't it depend on the price? If the price is low enough, I certainly would!

[Chillidoggy]

29 minutes ago, Giniw said:

Sure, it's highly dependant on who was watching the auction, especially for this niche market.

You just have to find two motivated unwise guys to end up with a very high price! (reminds me a few auctions I wanted to bid on on ebay ^^')

Wouldn't it depend on the price? If the price is low enough, I certainly would!

 

If the price is low the one thing you can be sure of is that there’s probably a good reason for it. Caveat emptor.