COP26

[march]

🤣 - Does anyone actually believe that anything will be achieved. What a complete and utter shambles these people are.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

To be fair I read elsewhere that the 20 Teslas were hired, not purchased, but I think the rest is correct. You’d think they would have thought about this many months ago.

[thebartman]

So there are no electricians who would like a job of installing x19 temprorary charging points?

Oh! Wait !! - they're all stuck on a ship as there are no lorry drivers around (in the world) and all the electricians have returned to the EU - see Brexit thread 😉 

[Kimbers]

Hey! Give it a try, what's the worst that can happen?

[C8RKH]

COP26 is a sham. It's there so the worlds leaders can showcase their hypocrisy. I mean, all the whinging about Chinese and Russian leaders not being there, if I were them, i would publish a small report showing how by NOT attending they had prevented xx amount of carbon and emissions, and how xxx tons of raw materials had been saved!  Oh, and publish it with two fingers stuck up in the air.

Let's take India - whooppeee, carbon neutral in 50 years by 2070!  Really!  What a larf they must be having back in Delhi.  They, nor anyone else will be around to hold them to account and in 70 years everyone will have forgotten about it anyway!  Empty promises from empty headed politicians and so called world leaders. Headlines to be grabbed to avoid having to actually do anything.  How about a commitment to provide solar powered cooking facilities for every Indian home?  95% of Indians burn wood for heat and cooking and that is catastrophic for their local, and global, environment. Not just emissions but the loss of trees etc.  So commit to invest and run a competition to create the solution needed, low cost to make and run, solar powered cookers and give one to every family that needs one!  Positive action to make a real difference this year, next year, the year after!

Let's take the UK - one of the biggest issues for people is fuel bills and the amount of fuel used to heat homes. So yes, Government pledges to provide 100% of the cost of insulation for every home under say £250k in value in the UK (supports people on lower incomes), 50% of the value on homes worth £250k to 500k. Nothing above that as if you have a £500k+ home you can pay the bills...... No ifs. Not buts. No complicated schemes. You just apply, a survey gets scheduled, it happens. No money changes hands to or from the home owner as all managed centrally to control costs and ensure no corruption. In year impact on fuel volumes used to heat homes and lower energy costs to the consumers who need the help the most - not schemes that relatively wealthy middle class+ families who have the money anyway to do what is needed to exploit.  Targeted help where it matters.

These global pledges are all just bullshit to be honest. Smoke to hide the mirrors so the politicians do not need to embarrass themselves as they laugh at the gullible voters who inhaled the smoke....

[Chillidoggy]

If we're talking hypocrisy, were we actually serious about the environment, instead of blaming politicians (which is fine by me by the way cos they're fair game), none of us here would be driving Lotus cars, would we? We'd all be driving electric vehicles recharged by renewable sources, riding pushbikes or on horseback.

I also suspect a lot of people in India and indeed elsewhere around the globe are too busy eking out a living to care much whether they burn coal, gas or oil to keep themselves warm.

We are all the problem. And I do not exempt myself from that.

 

[thebartman]

3 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:

none of us here would be driving Lotus cars

Given that a 25-ish year old Elise is ULEZ exempt but my 16 y/o toyota estate isn't , says much for the forward thinking of  Dear Ol' Lotus peeps - back in  the day

I take your other points.

2000 miles per annum in an ICE (1985 - when the world was a fab place to be) of which tax now represents some 80% of fuels costs (after I've paid income tax + vat etc), plus Road Fund Licence, + congestion charge + LEZ/ULEZ - my tax/revenue contribution to HMRC ought to be properly recognized.

Ooooopps! bloody USA spell chicken again, - *recognised*. 😉 

Oh - and if there wasn't demand for these items (e.g. Lotus, disposable nappies, BIC Biros etc. ) then who would actually have earned a living making them? 🤔

Perhaps the world would have run out of Juniper bushes a long time ago given Indians wanting a fire to cook/heat etc. ?

BTW - India joins USSR/USA in pretending this isn't happening. 

[C8RKH]

4 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:

If we're talking hypocrisy, were we actually serious about the environment, instead of blaming politicians (which is fine by me by the way cos they're fair game), none of us here would be driving Lotus cars, would we? We'd all be driving electric vehicles recharged by renewable sources, riding pushbikes or on horseback.

I also suspect a lot of people in India and indeed elsewhere around the globe are too busy eking out a living to care much whether they burn coal, gas or oil to keep themselves warm.

We are all the problem. And I do not exempt myself from that.

 

Said it many times before and will say it many times again - we, humans, are the problem. There are just too many of us. End of. Not addressing that one simple issue makes everything else we do, or try do, irrelevant.  Just my humble opinion.

[thebartman]

17 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

There are just too many of us

Completely in context - there are too many of "you/us".

Thanks for wanting to go to the head of the queue ; I'm right behind you 😉.  ....

 

[C8RKH]

37 minutes ago, thebartman said:

Completely in context - there are too many of "you/us".

Thanks for wanting to go to the head of the queue ; I'm right behind you 😉.  ....

 

And that's why we'll never fix the problem. Honest thing is I'll be dead before the real pain starts.

Oh, and you need to fix your grammar above. lol.

[thebartman]

🤣

[Kimbers]

For me, this isn't about our Govt trying to save the planet, its about smoke and mirrors. There are so many contradictions and plain idiocies in what is happening that I just can't see why none of the headlines are highlighting it. Much of this is about money and the govt making sure they can tax everything as well. So here's a few of the contradictions! If you know any more please add to them!

1. Encouraging Brazil and other countries to stop deforestation whilst simulatiously cutting down one of only 5 Ancient Forests left in the UK to build HS2. And encouraging new Housing estates cutting down and clearing all vegetation and Trees. Also you could add in asking other third world countries to save their natural habitat whilst the UK now has the lowest % of natural habitat left in Europe and the pace of building on Greenfield sites continues! Not to mention the fact that new houses are not built to Green credentials as that costs money! All new Builds should have triple glazing, Solar panels and heat exchange systems and this should be paid for by the Builder not passed on in house prices! It should just be part of building law! But noooooo! Wouldn't want to mess with big company profits!

2. Outlawing new cars with Petrol or Diesel Engines from 2030 and encouraging everyone to go Electric now. Whilst secretly doubling the tax on Electric company cars next year, doubling it again the year after and again the year after to counter the effects of losing money on petrol and Diesel Cars. Add in to this (and not many outside the car industry know this) the law they are pushing through to get Electricity companies to separate all Car charging points in future so the Electricity used including a Charge point at your own home to charge cars can be taxed differently to your household electricty. That will mean VAT at 20% instead of 5% and another tax equating to the loss in Fuel duty which is currently 58p litre. 

3. Promoting a Vegan and non meat based diet to save the planet whist serving locally sourced Bacon Sarnies at the COP26, which have nearly half the Carbon footprint of their Vegan option, much of which has to be shipped from another country. 

4. Listening to the youth of today and their demands, whilst not only have many never actually worked or paid into society, but many are at Uni or living at home so don't have a reality check on their lives and how they will have to live (till they have kids). Making demands that have absolutely no basis of reality whilst simultaniously being one of the biggest consumers of high carbon items. Having to have a new IPhone to keep up with mates, being the largest consumer of modern Fashion and consumer items, spending many hours on Computers and Consoles every day etc etc

5. The Govts focus on "Taxable Carbon emitters" and those items that are "Easy targets" to those who have no idea about the reality. For example this fixation on Cars and the Airline Industry! The car industry knows that the Transport industry (all road transport) produced 27% of Emissions created in the UK. However the Car industry only created 55% of that, so about 15% in total of the Greenhouse gases in the UK. The Airline Industry that the Politicians and Activists target, created 7% of total emissions. WHEREAS! the fashion industry created 10%! Thats more than the airline industry and Shipping industry combined!! Why is one highlighted and not the other? The fashion industry is harder to quantify tax than slapping another 5% on cars or fuel.

I could go on. You may have noticed I have been thinking about it all!

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Kimbers said:

I could go on

Please do. I actually enjoyed reading that and learned some new things. So thank you.

[Kimbers]

How about the fact that we have many new taxes coming on line, supposedly to justify reducing our carbon footprint (Car tax, Company car tax, Green taxes, fuel duty etc) by 2030. Yet we only produce 1% of the total greenhouse gasses worldwide. Whilst the likes of China, India and the USA all have targets at least 20 years after us and produce 28% (China) of the gases. One would think this is about raising money using green policy as an excuse!

Its been proven that making zero carbon emitting free or cheaper is more effective than putting up prices on higher carbon emitting. So ask yourself this. Why in Spain, Greece or France can I take a bus for 1 euro for any distance, or a train from the north of France to the south at £20 yet here I pay £4.25 to go 3 miles from my house to the City centre on a bus and £82 one way to go from Norwich to Manchester. Thats' twice as much as a car "there and back" and its only one way! Making cars more and more expensive doesn't push people onto trains or buses because they are much more expensive than cars!

 

[Chillidoggy]

Where are you getting your bus and train pricing info from? Last time I looked it was a lot more than £20 from Calais to Nice.

[Kimbers]

1 hour ago, Chillidoggy said:

Where are you getting your bus and train pricing info from? Last time I looked it was a lot more than £20 from Calais to Nice.

As of right now Paris to Nice e17.11

https://www.thetrainline.com/en/train-times/nice-to-paris?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhuPA67WB9AIVwp7tCh0w5QkkEAAYASAAEgJCevD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Chillidoggy]

A bit disingenuous as there’s only selected seats at the price, the bulk of them are way more than £20. That’s like RyanAir advertising!

[Kimbers]

Hi Ian, I likened it to my booking for Manchester. Same time frame for booking and even at the more expensive price of e50-80 its 3 times the distance. I don't think it unfair to say how proportionally more expensive Public Transport is here to elsewhere?

[thebartman]

There's only a limited selection of seats in a car.

[PaulCP]

I see that Greta puppet has been preaching to the gathering in Glasgow about how the Govts across the world are greenwashing.

In our house we talk about how Greta is the walking evidence of brainwashing. Worse still, she resembles the Labour Party in this country in being able to demonstrate how to criticise but never come up with practical solutions.

Yes the worlds climate is changing, partly because as @C8RKHhas said, there are just too many humans on the planet and partly due to the Earth’s natural evolution.
Recognise it for what it is and take appropriate action, but let’s not over sensationalise the situation and give the professional activists/demonstrators another excuse to avoid doing proper work!

 

[Frickin_idiot]

I will never understand why effectively outsourcing our carbon emissions to China and developing nations is good for the environment. At least we have regulations here to minimise impacts.

[PaulCP]

[drdoom]

Quite a pleasure reading the informed postings here. From here in the tarnished jewel we call Metro Vancouver I submit the following. Despite incessant fretful reports on climate concerns construction proceeds all about at a furious pace, much of which being concrete, the production of which is well known to be a major CO2 contributor. Roads are often reduced for the sake of add-on bike lanes rather than be expanded and after 30 minutes drive eastward the major motorway is diminished to a pitiful 2 lanes each way, the way it was when 1st built 60 years ago. We have bugger all in the way of train service, and Greyhound, the private inter-city and inter-provincial bus line, packed it in 2 years ago with another firm stepping up in a very limited way.  It's clear the dominant policy is one of growth, with ever increasing population density, and traffic flows suffer accordingly. Technology may alleviate much grief once most are placed within autonomous cars, permitting more efficient flow of traffic. Not my happy vision of the future but hard to see how it all works otherwise.

On the climate itself, most here will have heard of the "heat dome" we suffered through this summer and it was one for the ages. This was when a mass of very warm air simply parked upon us when the days ( therefore solar load ) were at their longest and nights the shortest, a time of year that is never expected to deliver the warmest weather. It persisted unduly as well, figuring in the deaths of some 700 in the province. As for the messaging we suffer ad nauseum it would serve better to pitch processes for the extraction of carbon from the atmosphere. Enough worry-mongering and menacing over further assaults on quality of life, I say.  

[C8RKH]

On 05/11/2021 at 21:31, Frickin_idiot said:

I will never understand why effectively outsourcing our carbon emissions to China and developing nations is good for the environment. At least we have regulations here to minimise impacts.

We didn't!  We just decided that we wanted more stuff than we needed and accepted that the best way to get it was to look the other way to child labour and accept poor product quality and reliability as the quid pro quo for being able to have cheap electrical and other goods in plenty.  It was sod all to do with a conscious environmental decision and more down to greed and entitlement and the "I want it so I will have it now" view of many in the West.

Let's not blame everything on "environmental choices" shall we. The vast majority of the choices made, by people and politicians are financially motivated and for self gain purposes.

[Frickin_idiot]

6 hours ago, C8RKH said:

We didn't!  We just decided that we wanted more stuff than we needed and accepted that the best way to get it was to look the other way to child labour and accept poor product quality and reliability as the quid pro quo for being able to have cheap electrical and other goods in plenty.  It was sod all to do with a conscious environmental decision and more down to greed and entitlement and the "I want it so I will have it now" view of many in the West.

Let's not blame everything on "environmental choices" shall we. The vast majority of the choices made, by people and politicians are financially motivated and for self gain purposes.

Britain succeeds despite its Polticians. Not because of them.