Is the lotus Eletre really worth it?

[Richardbz]

Got the email to complete purchase today, but my feeling is bit mixed..

i spec'ed my eletre top of the range with almost everything at nearly £170k..  is it really worth it or is it a good buy? 

1. at this price it is really similar if not more expensive than the taycan turbo s with similar performance and spec.  i bought a 2020 taycan turbo s last year and paid 139k and today looked at the market prices start from 78k! shocking! one year it lost 60k+! Will eletre do the same?

2.lotus is made in china by Jili auto and Jili is certainly NOT a premium brand in China.. that's why it's has not sold a lot in China maybe because of it's price tag and customer reaction is a bit mixed

3. First group of owers in china had hole bunch of extre gift , discount and benefit like full lifetime warranty and free 1500 public charging kwh per,month.  Here i guess nothing...

4.  since confirm order and till now nearly one year the Chinese currency has,dropped 15% againat pound, but there has been not any good will,from lotus like adjusting price 

 

what you guys think i just dont want to be in the same situation  losing 60k in a year on a car.  i have heard the current waiting time is 10 month and anyone know if it is selling well there is demand?

 

 

 

[Bibs]

Taycan's have suffered quite badly but all EV's have taken a hit over the last year due to Tesla's 'price correction'. Porsche traditionally lose 40% over the first 3 years but in the Eletre's favour Lotus have been the slowest depreciating cars over the last few years. That said, that was when they were building 1,500 sports cars per year. 

Geely have spent $1bn on a new factory in Wuhan for the Eletre, I've seen it and it's vast and hugely automated. Having been to a few factories over the years, I'd say that the Eletre (and other lifestyle models) factory is pretty cutting edge in terms of manufacturing technology. Lotus is their premium brand in China so I'd imagine more have been invested in these cars than their traditional products. 

I'm not sure of current demand but Lotus were very pleased with the initial uptake in the UK, it was much stronger than expected. 

If I were you, I'd get a test drive booked in. The cars are getting very positive reviews on the whole and as a drivers car, for a huge SUV, it's being well received. Yes, you'll definitely lose money but that's the new car game, how much is a mystery as it's a new model but the Taycan has suffered more than most EV's over 2023 so I think the Eletre, initially due to it's limited supply over here will do better. 

[Icefire7]

1- I don't think any 170k car is a "good buy" (at least unless you're investing in classic cars). This is a heart not head decision. You either want the car or you don't- the depreciation should be fairly irrelevant. This is not a mass-market commuter car. Anything "spec'ed out" tends to lose much more on the extras over time. Having said that, from what I can see it looks as if the Eletre is forecast to have some of the lowest depreciation over 3 years of any EV currently on the market.

 

2- It's Geely (not jili). They own a large number of car brands, and operate in a similar manner to most of the large carmakers. A Lotus is a Geely in the same way that a Ferrari is a Stellantis or a Lamborghini is a Volkswagen (or a Porsche for that matter)

 

3- Different culture in China, and the cost of doing business is lower. Unfortunately here in the UK we don't tend to demand/expect a load of perks, even when buying luxury (and therefore there's no real need or incentive for dealers and manufacturers to offer them). Hyundai are trialling more luxurious customer service with their Genesis brand, but I'm not sure that's gained much traction. BMW and Mercedes continue to be renowned for their shocking customer service despite the "premium" branding

 

4- Part of car pricing does involve a bit of psychology. If they started cutting prices it would devalue the premium branding. A Louis Vuitton handbag isn't actually worth 10k- it's the same quality as a £500 bag from another brand, and probably costs less than £200 to make. At this sector of the market, being expensive is part of the draw for many. Probably around 5% of Range Rovers on the road are actually used for any countryside/offroad activity. There's a big "status" element to it- and that partly comes from knowing they're expensive. A Land Cruiser is just as good off road and pretty comfy inside, but we don't see so many of them around because there's no status attached!

 

If you're thinking about resale, my main concern would be that as the country transitions to electric, the tax/BIK treatment for electric cars will become less and less favourable. Many people are buying electric cars as company cars because it just makes sense right now- you get a much nicer car than you would otherwise be able to get because of the tax breaks (eg a 100k Lotus or Tesla will cost you a lot less than a 100k Range Rover). There is a concern that the second hand market will be flooded with these more premium electric vehicles in a few years when the tax treatment changes as electric cars become ubiquitous and they have to make up for lost taxes somehow, and of course the general average price of electric vehicles comes down.

I'm taking a long lease on mine so I can give it back at the end and not have to manage the uncertainty of potentially having something that's not worth as much as I want after 5 years. Might be something to consider...

 

 

[C8RKH]

4 hours ago, Bibs said:

Taycan's have suffered quite badly but all EV's have taken a hit over the last year due to Tesla's 'price correction'. Porsche traditionally lose 40% over the first 3 years but in the Eletre's favour Lotus have been the slowest depreciating cars over the last few years. That said, that was when they were building 1,500 sports cars per year. 

All EV's have suffered badly, what was it, 39% depreciation on average from January to August this year. Wow!

The price correction was mostly down to the fact that buyers just have not been buying EV's in sufficient numbers, as manufacturers greedily focused on the premium market where profit margins were the highest.

There's an oversupply issue, which never helps prices.

This is absolutely nothing against Lotus, but personally (and this is not an attack on anyone as it's your money) anyone who is shelling out £130k+ on an EV (like the Eletre, top spec Audi's, etc) is in for a nasty, a very nasty, shock when it comes to depreciation. I would expect based on current trajectories such cars being valued at max, £50-60k in 3 years, so that's a £25-30k per annum depreciation hit.

Lotus have been excellent in the past when it comes to residuals. But that was largely because it was a small volume maker of niche cars. Caterham are the same.

Lotus is now firmly in the "mass market" competing against the likes of Audi, and as such, I am happy to wager £50 with anyone that in 3 years the depreciation of their electric models will not match the Evora/Exige/Elise and will be more aligned to VAG etc.

As above, it's your money. It's your choice. But I'd laugh if in the future anyone on here was complaining about residuals for these cars. We've already seen it with the Emira.

[RichEV]

It seems to me that the base Eletre is somewhat a bargain. Look at how many options you need to tick to bring a base Taycan up to the same specification.
And by adding just a few options the base Eletre becomes indistinguishable from an 'R' 😀

 

[aquiss]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

All EV's have suffered badly, what was it, 39% depreciation on average from January to August this year. Wow!

Correct, my Jaguar I-Pace was on track for 40K, for this month (when it's PCP comes to an end) at the start of the year and I would have been to be 2-3K in the pocket based on my agreed settlement. Did the final checks this week and the best I can get is 32K if sold back to a dealer (who wanted first dibs on my spec) but the open market is around 30K.

Tesla's sudden wild price changes has helped no one, including themselves.

[C8RKH]

33 minutes ago, aquiss said:

Tesla's sudden wild price changes has helped no one, including themselves

Tesla, just like any other manufacturer doesn't care about used values. They need to sell new cars and their cars were way over priced for the market (as otherwise they would not have cut so deep) but great for making Musk a billionaire.

[Philip W]

I've been a Lotus owner for over 20 years and as the others have said they have held their value well. I also tend to keep them at least 5 years which avoids the hit of any early depreciation.

My Eletre has reached Bell & Colvill so I should have it soon but I didn't get too carried away with the spec. I thought the S fast enough and added the comfort seats but no more. My main concern is how quickly tech advances will make current EVs outdated and in turn resale values. The Lotus brand should help protect against that.

The Eletre will replace a Range Rover Sport, the third one I have had so I like them. Speccing a new hybrid RRS to the same quality as the Eletre produces a very similar price but as far as I'm concerned the Eletre is a much better car. That being the case I think that the Eletre price is good.

[C8RKH]

10 minutes ago, Philip W said:

I've been a Lotus owner for over 20 years and as the others have said they have held their value well. I also tend to keep them at least 5 years which avoids the hit of any early depreciation.

What?

The depreciation hit is the same, whether over 5 years or 3, in cash terms. If you bought new. i.e, you might lose £15k over three years, then £20k over 5, you still lost the first £15k in the first 3 years, then the £5k over the ;ast 2 years. But it's still £20k, if you know what I mean.

[Bibs]

Depreciation isn't a straight line. That's the point. 

[C8RKH]

I get that @Bibs which is why justifying it over a set period doesn't mean you don't "lose" the same amount of money, as I said "£15k over 3 years, £10k over 2 years" that ain't no straight line but you haven't dodged the steepest bit, and the net loss adds up the same. Assuming we are talking buying from new.

[jimbobjoe]

I can see why you might baulk at dropping £170k on a car.
I've specced mine to 96k, and at that price I think it's a bit of bargain. 

We went through a bit of a bubble when the car supply chain hadn't restarted quickly enough after covid. That drove 2nd hand prices stupidly high for all types of car.

This is just a bit of a reset, as demand has generally dropped but supply is now plentiful. I expect in 3 or 4 years time that resale values will have normalised again.
Or I'll just keep the car longer. (11 years is my record...)
 

[exeterjeep]

Must shortly be time for a market watch thread.... first one on AT.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310062719106   £119995, but does not state which version it is. Assume base + extras.

ays Vehicle registered: 06/10/2023 might be yellow.

[Bibs]

25 miles, 7 above average!! 🤣🤣

[Rambo]

@Richardbz personally I think you're mad. There are a lot better toys to spend your money on 😲

[Bibs]

Each to their own! 

[C8RKH]

Yup, it's a free world and last I looked we can still call someone "mad" or "stupid" without being locked up. Though, I'm pretty sure that'll be on the books soon enough.

[Richardbz]

On 07/10/2023 at 19:40, Rambo said:

@Richardbz personally I think you're mad. There are a lot better toys to spend your money on 😲

i had a taycan turbo s  although looks great stunning car but the depreciation this year 60+k loss and the number of trips going to thr dealer.... made it  the worst car i have ever had....

i had last Dec Jan no heating, hundreds of taycan in uk all waiting for the heat pump

then the vodafone,server crash, hundreds taycan in uk all "bricked" locked itself wouldn't start for weeks because "they think the car are stolen had to be taken  to dealer.  

back to the topic, i,wanted to have a suv, but at 170k , i know, the bently look too granny, urus is out few years now, bit bored and need  a lot more money

only the aston martin DBX,  also out a couple of  years and the inside looks bit dated

range rover? too boxy and not very sporty

the other thing is after owing  the intelligent EVs in China, i could control the car mostly by voice, can look for anything on the Internet,when drive, such as finding  an funny story or English lesson for my daughter to listen. much better self drive system. the difference is really iphone and nokia...

dont like tesla....

this Eletre, it's performance and spec only urus and dbx 707 can  compare . Plus it is a electric which can go through the company as i have few £m sat in the company doing nothing.....

i guess there isn't any better choice....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Richardbz]

On 07/10/2023 at 17:39, exeterjeep said:

Must shortly be time for a market watch thread.... first one on AT.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310062719106   £119995, but does not state which version it is. Assume base + extras.

ays Vehicle registered: 06/10/2023 might be yellow.

must be the base model the R+ starts from 120k! i might have my up for sale green R+ outside gold inside, all in and out  carbon extras,  23inch alloys carbon ceramic breaks, kef speakers,  camera side mirror, colour changing glass roof and so on  everything you would choose  total 169k spent! anyone interested? 😝

Edited October 9, 2023 by Richardbz

[Rambo]

On 07/10/2023 at 21:40, Rambo said:

@Richardbz personally I think you're mad. There are a lot better toys to spend your money on 😲

Don't listen to me. I'm just jealous you have £170K to spend 👍

[Frickin_idiot]

On 09/10/2023 at 19:55, Richardbz said:

i had a taycan turbo s  although looks great stunning car but the depreciation this year 60+k loss and the number of trips going to thr dealer.... made it  the worst car i have ever had....

i had last Dec Jan no heating, hundreds of taycan in uk all waiting for the heat pump

then the vodafone,server crash, hundreds taycan in uk all "bricked" locked itself wouldn't start for weeks because "they think the car are stolen had to be taken  to dealer.  

back to the topic, i,wanted to have a suv, but at 170k , i know, the bently look too granny, urus is out few years now, bit bored and need  a lot more money

only the aston martin DBX,  also out a couple of  years and the inside looks bit dated

range rover? too boxy and not very sporty

the other thing is after owing  the intelligent EVs in China, i could control the car mostly by voice, can look for anything on the Internet,when drive, such as finding  an funny story or English lesson for my daughter to listen. much better self drive system. the difference is really iphone and nokia...

dont like tesla....

this Eletre, it's performance and spec only urus and dbx 707 can  compare . Plus it is a electric which can go through the company as i have few £m sat in the company doing nothing.....

i guess there isn't any better choice....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a wonderful car and I am sure that you have made a good choice.

I’d love to be in a position to drop that kinda wedge on a car. 
 

Well done for being successful and I hope that the car lives up to all expectations 

[Djs44]

Not sure about depreciation on the Eletre . Taycan look good value second hand thou . 

I cancelled my order for an Eletre - I can't imagine it will drive anywhere near as well as the Taycan ( I have a Turbo CT ) . I'm tempted by the Lotus saloon out in 2024 ? 

[DarrylV8]

On 17/10/2023 at 12:53, Djs44 said:

Not sure about depreciation on the Eletre . Taycan look good value second hand thou . 

I cancelled my order for an Eletre - I can't imagine it will drive anywhere near as well as the Taycan ( I have a Turbo CT ) . I'm tempted by the Lotus saloon out in 2024 ? 

You should take a drive at your local retailer, I think you could be very surprised at how good the drive is 

[Djs44]

Darryl - might take a test drive - have you compared it to the Taycan?  ( I know they are different in terms of types , but would be interested to know .) . There haven't been any decent road  tests in any of the mags . 

[Richardbz]

had,a track drive in china on Saturday only s+, drives ok similar to taycan but do feel taller and higher cog