Is electric really the answer?

[mdavies]

Not familiar with either EV's or this thread so apologies if already posted,, but with backing from VW and Gates, this may be an important straw in the strengthening wind:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90548121/this-gates-backed-startup-is-building-a-better-battery-for-electric-cars?partner=rss&utm_campaign=rss+fastcompany&utm_content=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=rss

Number of other projects on solid state batteries claiming better performance than current tech of course.  E.g. Tesla's "Battery Day" launch 9.30 pm GMT on 22nd Sept has been widely trailed/hyped.  Almost certainly live coverage on the net.

PS: Should have noted that with the IPO nearing, always a publicity campaign ahead of those! 

Edited September 9, 2020 by mdavies

[eUKenGB]

2 hours ago, mdavies said:

Not familiar with either EV's or this thread so apologies if already posted,, but with backing from VW and Gates, this may be an important straw in the strengthening wind:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90548121/this-gates-backed-startup-is-building-a-better-battery-for-electric-cars?partner=rss&utm_campaign=rss+fastcompany&utm_content=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=rss

Number of other projects on solid state batteries claiming better performance than current tech of course.  E.g. Tesla's "Battery Day" launch 9.30 pm GMT on 22nd Sept has been widely trailed/hyped.  Almost certainly live coverage on the net.

PS: Should have noted that with the IPO nearing, always a publicity campaign ahead of those! 

Yes, certainly interesting. I think over the next few years we will see some real improvements in battery tech. Quantum leaps rather than incremental.

It makes no sense to me that Lotus are still planning new ICE cars. At least that was the last announcement I saw. Just produce an EVora. Fabulous looking car already, with terrific real world performance. Just make an electric version. That's what I want anyway.

[Barrykearley]

Having spotted an electric pork this morning - I do think that lotus need to up their game in this regard

[eUKenGB]

16 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Having spotted an electric pork this morning - I do think that lotus need to up their game in this regard

By which do you mean a Taycan?

I think Lotus have the ability to do it (e.g. the Evija), but I'm not sure the £1-2m car market is the one they should be aiming for. Certainly doesn't suit me. 😂

[Mysterae]

If I had a spare ~£70k I'd be seriously looking at a Tesla CyberTruck, the Tri Motor AWD version of course - 

- 0-60 mph in <2.9 seconds

- 500+ mile range

- Looks like the offspring between Max Headroom and a Delorean, so ugly it's cool.

[scotty435]

Not sure on there sales figures but it looks like Tesla are doing something right the model three is a common sight on British roads.

[C8RKH]

7 hours ago, scotty435 said:

Not sure on there sales figures but it looks like Tesla are doing something right the model three is a common sight on British roads.

It is frugly though from the front and build quality/reliability is near the bottom. That level of performance I suppose never hurt Audi's sales either I suppose. Brand power wins out.

[Techyd]

On 09/04/2020 at 16:24, Neal H said:

Indeed. If this becomes reality then BEV becomes a no-brainer. Hopefully the technology achieves this within the next ten years. Right now, I think it’s hard to make a case for an electric car over IC. I’ll bet the majority of current BEV owners also have access to an IC vehicle!

Certainly, the electricity to charge the cars has to be 100% from renewables, but really, for me its sheer scale of manufacturing ALL that we consume which is the real problem, the end products like cars, boats and aeroplanes sure they emit pollution and produce it with global coverage but the energy consumption and waste from the manufacturing far outweighs them.

Anyway, personally, I quite like the idea of converting existing cars; there's a guy in America who has converted the Evora to a full EV and it's quite impressive!  So, if I was feeling a real stickler, I'd say we actually need to stop building new cars (we have enough), use and recycle the ones we've got.

 

[cor]

Dean,

 

You are completely right!!

The problem is our whealth, eating buying travelling etc.

In the long term we have to do someting about that but we do not want to so we are thinking of all kinds of band aids.....

[mdavies]

For EV enthusiasts - Tesla focused anyway.

https://electrek.co/2020/09/16/tesla-battery-cell-in-house-roadrunner-first-look/

Sneak preview or Tesla PR. Seems more incremental improvement than battery breakthrough, but article says that more to come on Tesla's "Battery Day".  Unless future-proofed in the battery compartment, Evija may be last generation tech already. 

[Mysterae]

Tesla Battery Day live streams going right now. It'll be interesting what advancements they are proposing.

 

[mdavies]

Seems the Evija can whine- sorry, breathe – a little easier. Good overview of the Battery Day show from the “visible battery tech” position but of course the leading edge (Skeleton, Gnanomat, Maxwell, others doubtless including Tesla) working with more advanced materials (notably graphene) and with some initial success.

“Elon Musk made big promises at Tesla’s highly anticipated event. But a prototype never appeared, and it was unclear what the company had actually achieved.”

https://www.wired.com/story/where-was-the-battery-at-teslas-battery-day/

[Mysterae]

Yes, battery day was a bit flat, didn't seem as charged as usual, missing that Tesla energy. With the current climate and the audience sat in their cars tooting their approval was all a bit weird, certainly awkward. I don't hear that many beeps unless the other half is driving.

[Bibs]

Thanks to @Kimbers excellent network I was able to spend a couple of days with one of these, just took it back this morning.

It's a 508 Fastback Allure PHEV. I am curious about the choice I have between a PHEV and BEV so it was interesting to spend some time with one. 

I can see the appeal, but the Lotus lover in me really doesn't like to carry around an engine doing nothing on most of my journeys so after this I'm more leaning towards a BEV. This will be replacing the VW, which having been chipped see's around 55-60mpg so it's a stretch to find something more economical. 

The 508 is a great piece of tech. The iCockpit is excellent, I'm a fan of the stunning displays and there are a ton of really nice tech features on the car which I really like. The lane assist however can suck my balls, what a pain that is! Otherwise it's a really well equipped car, lovely place to be too and although very, very heavy, it does chip along really nicely.

With my driving profile working mainly from home, battery power suits me and the 27 miles in the 508 would make sense, but with many pure battery cars seeing over 250 miles range, that would last me around a week and a half on average between charges. Once or twice a year I need to travel further for work and in this instance, I can swallow an hour on a top up charge somewhere and this would really be the only times I'd need the engine in a PHEV hence thinking battery only.

Thanks Kimbers and Dan at Robins & Day Peugeot for arranging the loan, very much appreciated and a nice eye opener. 

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

We bought a Nissan Leaf a year ago, really just as a toe in the water EV, see how we feel about it... honestly it's been amazing. The range in something like 150 miles, not great for a long trip but day to day pottering around it's perfect, zero anxiety after the first couple of weeks once we gave up obsessing over the range read out! We'd not realised there's a wait for the fast charger to be installed so we started charging it off the standard 3 pin socket and it's fine, charges up overnight, never a problem. Plan A is to consolidate the runabout and the Mrs's 4x4 ( proper rural we need one honest ), into a single EV 4x4 with a decent range. There's a few on the horizon, Nissan have something coming along at the beginning of next year as does VW. It's exciting, makes me feel almost clean... sort of. After that I won't feel so bad about selling the house, the kids and both kidneys for an Evija... 

[Barrykearley]

We had a leaf - racked up 114k in it. Now have a kona EV - it’s fantastic 

[Bibs]

I've booked a test drive in a Kia e-Niro 4+ for next weekend. There's a 6 month waiting list! 

[Barrykearley]

Essentially the same platform with a different body so I understand @Bibs. Not a sports car - but they are superbly capable and usable cars.

[gregs24]

20 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

We had a leaf - racked up 114k in it. Now have a kona EV - it’s fantastic 

Till it catches fire !

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34317051/hyundai-kona-electric-recalled-korea/

 

Ford (Kuga PHEV) and Hyundai Kona both seem to be having problems with their LG Chem made batteries. 

To be fair it is only 4 Kuga's and 12 Kona's that have incinerated themselves, but it is looking like an expensive recall for both of them if they have to replace the battery packs. Hopefully a control system modification can fix it.

[Barrykearley]

Ooh we will watch this one with some interest @gregs24 - I’m sure we will get a notification of recall soon.

[Kimbers]

I drive a Niro PHEV. I need the range an engine gives me for work but find its so handy running around locally on electric.

So far I have done 5000 miles in it and have an average fuel consumption of 279 mpg.

And it saves me an absolute fortune in Company car tax!

[Barrykearley]

Ahh but how many KWh of electricity have you consumed ?

Petrol has 41.3KWh per gallon or 9.1 per litre. Now a litre is about £1.10 currently - electric is about £0.15 per KWh so on the same comparison electric is £1.36 a litre 👍

[gregs24]

On 12/10/2020 at 07:56, Barrykearley said:

Ahh but how many KWh of electricity have you consumed ?

Petrol has 41.3KWh per gallon or 9.1 per litre. Now a litre is about £1.10 currently - electric is about £0.15 per KWh so on the same comparison electric is £1.36 a litre 👍

Of course if you have your own PV's it is all free, or at least it is on my FIT. Just don't charge too fast as the panels only output 4Kw so need to use standard 3 pin socket which is fine for a PHEV with their smaller batteries.

[Barrykearley]

Good point @gregs24 - sadly also need to charge in the winter though - and they certainly won’t output 4kw then. 
That said we have two 4kw sets installed at home - it does make a nice difference.

[gregs24]

22 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Good point @gregs24 - sadly also need to charge in the winter though - and they certainly won’t output 4kw then. 
That said we have two 4kw sets installed at home - it does make a nice difference.

I usually get about 3Kwh of electricity out of my array on a winters day. As long as it is sunny it will do most of the car recharge. Not 100% free but very very cheap !