Is electric really the answer?

[scotty435]

10 hours ago, eUKenGB said:

I hope you're not accusing me of double standards. 😉

Battery technology will certainly get way better "IN THE FUTURE", but it's already good enough to be viable for most use cases. By alternatives, I guess you mean hydrogen as what else is there? But there are problems with its use as a fuel that are less likely to get much better "IN THE FUTURE" due to the laws of physics.

I'm looking forward to the micro fission reactor. Small enough to easily fit in a car and sealed for life with all the energy that will ever be required for that vehicle. No refuelling or recharging - ever.

Ok I made that up, but it's not completely beyond possibility. Sadly, I very much doubt in my lifetime.

Did worn you to get ready for a barrage of hostile replies from the usual suspects.

[DarrylV8]

11 hours ago, alan said:

  

Official range is 244 miles but driving normally (ie as if you stole it) the real world range is more like 150.   Mine is 10 years old and 100K, range has dropped by perhaps 10 miles.  

It still does 0 to 60 in sub 4 seconds from every junction & traffic light. 

You ask what the charge time to 80% is .  Not easy to answer - if the car was totally flat then you need to charge to 80% of the 53kWh capacity.  To add 42.4 kWh to get 80% will take about 6 hours on a typical 32A (7.2kW) home charger.  There are a few 70A chargers around which will do it in 2.5 hours.  In reality like all EVs you just plug it in at night and in the morning its full.

 

Hi Alan,

thank you and very much appreciated 

a very impressive car and still going very strong. I’m assuming if the range has only dropped by approx 10M the batteries/battery pack is good for a few more years/miles 

not wanting to be too nosey and apart from the convenience of being able to top up at home what is the servicing cost, which I assume you/Lotus dealership can carry out (everything is secure/brakes/usual items) or is there a high tech test?

[alan]

24 minutes ago, DarrylV8 said:

Hi Alan,

thank you and very much appreciated 

a very impressive car and still going very strong. I’m assuming if the range has only dropped by approx 10M the batteries/battery pack is good for a few more years/miles 

not wanting to be too nosey and apart from the convenience of being able to top up at home what is the servicing cost, which I assume you/Lotus dealership can carry out (everything is secure/brakes/usual items) or is there a high tech test?

Annual service is about £400 / year from Tesla, I feel its best to keep a good relationship with them in case some obscure flux capacitor needs replacing.  There are a few Tesla specific bits that are in short supply.  Some body panels are also hard to come by but some owners are getting them made in small batches.  As you can imagine with such a small volume car the owners help each other out.

As with all EVs there are so few moving parts there is little to go wrong with the "electric bits".  Suspension / brakes / steering is mostly Elise or VX220 and its best to buy the parts from a Lotus specialist as Tesla have crazy mark ups.  Rear tyres cost a lot - not because they are expensive (Yoko AD08s) but due to my heavy right foot.  Had at least 20 sets.

Apart from the S4s which I dont use much (but will never sell) we are a fully Tesla family.  I must admit the Model 3 performance is a awesome car - official 0 to 60 is 3.2 but lots of people have measured sub 3 seconds.  It really feels glued to the road with dare I say it Lotus like steering and handling.  I dont know when the next gen Tesla Roadster will arrive but sub 2 seconds 0 to 60 will be mad.

[C8RKH]

10 hours ago, scotty435 said:

Did worn you to get ready for a barrage of hostile replies from the usual suspects.

Not hostile at all if you read it and one comment is not a barrage and actually @eUKenGB took it in the spirit it was meant, hence the wink. I'll leave what I think of your "snide" comments in my head.  

[ChrisJ]

3 hours ago, alan said:

Apart from the S4s which I dont use much

You need to come along to one of our monthly meets - when they start up again. A good excuse to use it/

Interesting story in today's telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/durable-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars/

Quote

How durable are hydrogen fuel-cell cars?
A million hard miles in the hands of taxi drivers is the ultimate test of the potential of cars that produce their own electricity

 

[Bibs]

4 hours ago, alan said:

Rear tyres cost a lot - not because they are expensive (Yoko AD08s) but due to my heavy right foot.  Had at least 20 sets.

Good effort 

[pete]

1 hour ago, ChrisJ said:

You need to come along to one of our monthly meets - when they start up again. A good excuse to use it

 

Must be 10 years since the last time at the silver ball cafe on the A10

[C8RKH]

@alan out of interest, how do you find you are "greeted" out on the road by other Lotus drivers - do you get the wave/flash/thumb or, like say a VX220 owner are you sometimes just blanked?

A lot of debate over the years about the VX and Lotus ownership, not seem much about Tesla and Lotus.

Cheers

[electro_boy]

I guess it’s so rare some people me included might not twig what the car was before it went past? 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in the wild? 
 

Going back to the main topic. I’d like to see more ev  town / city cars. Cars that are small, cheap and short range. 

Most journeys in this type of car are short and a range of 80 miles would easily see out a few days before charging was needed. 

I’d also like to see more infrastructure put in so it’s easier to charge your car. Not everyone has a drive way to park their car and charge it.

I’d like to see a lot more street side chargers etc to remove the range anxiety people will get from small city cars with small ranges. 

EV cars are still in their infancy, many manufacturers have only developed one EV car which is in its first iteration.

This costs a lotIn R&D and to get that back you need to develop a high end saloon or SUV car. So I guess I’m just going to have to wait a bit longer for everyone to recoup their costs until the cheap city run around versions are released. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

During my 4 or 5 years of Lotus Omega (LHD Lotus Carlton) ownership, I don’t remember ever being acknowledged by the driver of a Lotus sports car. I guess it’s not the most obvious stable-mate, but if the shoe was on the other foot and I was driving something like an Elise and saw an oncoming Lotus Carlton, I would have wet myself with excitement.

If there was any anti GM snobbery, they’ll be laughing on the other side of their faces if they were to look at the values of the respective cars nowadays!

[alan]

6 hours ago, C8RKH said:

@alan out of interest, how do you find you are "greeted" out on the road by other Lotus drivers - do you get the wave/flash/thumb or, like say a VX220 owner are you sometimes just blanked?

A lot of debate over the years about the VX and Lotus ownership, not seem much about Tesla and Lotus.

Cheers

Nearly all Lotus owners wave at me but sometimes look a bit confused / do a double take.  Not sure if thats because it looks similar to a Lotus or because many years of Lotus ownership has conditioned me to wave at any Lotus I pass, perhaps a bit of both.  

Other Tesla owners do not wave at the Roadster, suspect few know what it is.  In the last 10 years only passed another Roadster by chance twice - both times pulled over to have a chat.  On the other hand if driving a Tesla Model S or 3 then other Tesla owners do often wave.  So many on the road now that waving at others gets a bit silly.  

[C8RKH]

36 minutes ago, alan said:

Nearly all Lotus owners wave at me but sometimes look a bit confused / do a double take.  Not sure if thats because it looks similar to a Lotus or because many years of Lotus ownership has conditioned me to wave at any Lotus I pass, perhaps a bit of both.  

Nice to hear that and good that it gets recognition (when it get recognised) in the community!

[KAS-118]

Interesting article in Autocar regarding Bentley seeing its future is to focus on EV Endurance racing https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/bentley-interested-electric-endurance-racing

Also, I hadn't realised that VW had decided to axe all its non-EV works motorsport programmes.

[DarrylV8]

Just read an article on BBC regarding a “bath sponge” metallic material that was developed for the US armed forces to protect against nerve agent attack’s which the researchers hope to develop with car manufacturers for hydrogen cars.

hopefully someone will be able to put a link on!

Science & Environment

 

Climate change: 'Bath sponge' breakthrough could boost cleaner cars

By Matt McGrath Environment correspondent

 

[eUKenGB]

Looks like a very interesting and promising new technology.

I really think the next decade is going to be extremely exciting as we watch the development of new vehicle power tech, like the above to improve use of hydrogen and also batteries. In many respects I wish it had all taken place over the last decade so I would now be taking advantage of all the advances and improvements they will bring to our driving experience and to our environment.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Bibs

[KAS-118]

On 18/04/2020 at 07:48, DarrylV8 said:

Just read an article on BBC regarding a “bath sponge” metallic material that was developed for the US armed forces to protect against nerve agent attack’s which the researchers hope to develop with car manufacturers for hydrogen cars.

hopefully someone will be able to put a link on!

Science & Environment

 

Climate change: 'Bath sponge' breakthrough could boost cleaner cars

By Matt McGrath Environment correspondent

 

Here's a recent article on the Hydrogen Fuel Cell v Battery issue in Forbes; it discusses the 'Bath Sponge'.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2020/04/26/could-hydrogen-fuel-cells-revive-threaten-battery-technology-in-cars/#7d70987a55e4

It also discusses that BMW's intention of using Hydrogen as a fuel in Internal Combustion Engines is now dead - so unless there's something new, cheap and easy to roll out that comes out very soon, the future seems very much that Cars will be Electric powered by Batteries, or electric powered by Hydrogen fuel cells. 

Here is also the link to the BBC Article you were referring to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52328786

One thing I don't quite understand is that although the material may be very porous, if its absorbing something that is being stored without any pressure, then surely the volume is going to be the same. A both sponge absorbs water, by attracting water into it by capillary attraction - so instead of laying on the surface of say a floor, it is now stored in a more 3D way by the sponge. However, the volume of the water you have doesn't change!? 

Additional, this https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/23/mercedes-benz-is-done-chasing-after-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars/ is an article discussing Mercedes decision to abandon its Hydrogen Fuel Cell investigation for Cars - although continues with its investigation of this technology for larger commercial vehicles. 

I was discussing this with a work colleague of mine, who's son has just finished his engineering degree. His view was that Hydrogen Fuels cells could well be the way of generating  electricity to then supply it to consumers to use - rather then be contained in personal vehicles themselves, But who knows what 'new thing' is around the corner?

Edited April 27, 2020 by KAS-118

[KAS-118]

Another article looking at the energy efficiencies between Batteries and Hydrogen Fuel Cells https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/237880/is-the-small-fuel-cell-electric-vehicle-going-to-be-a-betamax/

[KAS-118]

Wow - strange times it may be - but I see the Tesla 3 is the UK's best seller for April 2020, and the Jaguar i-Pace is in the Nr 2 position.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

[electro_boy]

I'm not sure how much you can look into those figures with the virus lockdown situation going on.   But there is something in the numbers, most car types are down ~95%+ on sales compared to April last year but BEV sales are only down ~10% compared to last year.  Seems like BEV buyers really want their cars while others are happy to wait till the world resumes.

[KAS-118]

I find it odd that the SMMT don't list Tesla in their manufacturer data (I assume they're under 'Other Imports') but it lists Polestar who sold none this month; not for the same period last year.

Its also unclear to me how any cars were delivered during the lock-down...?

...but I guess this is Registrations; not deliveries - so they might still be sitting on the forecourts.

[mg4lotus]

Probably delivered on the back of a wagon. The delivery guy wears PPE to get it off the wagon. You sign for it with a 2m pen. 😄

[electro_boy]

Tesla cars have the self driving feature right?  Maybe the cars come off the production line and the sat nav is programmed with the customer's address and the car delivers it self?! 😄. No issues with PPE and social distancing! 

 

[C8RKH]

I find it funny some times how the "leader" of a company can have such a huge influence on someones propensity to buy their product.

I wouldn't fly Ryanair as I cannot stand O'Leary

I stopped Sky subscription because of Murdoch

And I absolutely would not buy a car, or anything else, off Musk.

We're all wired differently but for me, quite often purchasing decisions can be quite personal, to me.

[KAS-118]

2 hours ago, electro_boy said:

Tesla cars have the self driving feature right?  Maybe the cars come off the production line and the sat nav is programmed with the customer's address and the car delivers it self?! 😄. No issues with PPE and social distancing! 

 

LOL - yeah I think you cracked the main reason 😄

Also, according to Autocar - it was on-line orders that were completed prior to the lock-down that did it. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/tesla-model-3-aprils-best-selling-new-car-uk

[KAS-118]

47 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I find it funny some times how the "leader" of a company can have such a huge influence on someones propensity to buy their product.

I wouldn't fly Ryanair as I cannot stand O'Leary

I stopped Sky subscription because of Murdoch

And I absolutely would not buy a car, or anything else, off Musk.

We're all wired differently but for me, quite often purchasing decisions can be quite personal, to me.

I'm with you on O'Laery and Murdock; hence I have never flown with Ryanair and do not subscribe to Sky. I just feel that rather than 'care' about you as a customer - they just care about screwing you over.

Musk, I haven't got such a problem with. In my mind he's an innovator and to an extent a visionary. Re-usebale rockets that return back for re-launch are what everyone used to imagine - before the space exploration started - but ended up with just single use behemoths. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today, if it were not for him. So whatever way you cut it - he had a dream and followed it.

Of course, he has his bad points - but to me the good ones, currently outweigh those. Maybe in the future that will flip - and I'll find him rather irksome - but until then I wouldn't 'not' buy his products just because he made them.