Is electric really the answer?

[exeterjeep]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

something like the annual MOT to start off

these miles would also include off road miles and track days?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

They had a chance to make it more equitable decades ago by abolishing road tax and putting the missing tax on fuel. The more you drive, the more you pay. Simples, but not so easy now with all these electric and hybrid vehicles.

[exeterjeep]

on older cars just detach the speedo drive on occasions.

[exeterjeep]

cars over 40 years old are tax exempt but still have to buy fuel, perhaps they would like to find a way to remove older and then non EV's from the road.

[oneshot]

17 hours ago, C8RKH said:

It could be enforced through something like the annual MOT to start off with.

I'm up for that! I haven't had an MOT on my daily driver for over 15 years!

No charge for the first 3 years then a mahoosive one for the 3 years.

[pete]

Whatever it seems likely we will be paying in arrears instead of in advance,wonder how they will collect it.

[C8RKH]

@oneshot but that means you will need to submit your car to annual mileage check. Maybe not an MOT as such.

The good thing about older, analogue, cars is you can disconnect the odometer or wind it back. Hmmmm.  I wonder, if you wind it back enough, if you can actually get the Government to pay you?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Like Ferris Bueller’s MGB kitcar 

[exeterjeep]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

The good thing about older, analogue, cars is you can disconnect the odometer or wind it back

Think I have seen somewhere that some have the software etc to hack the modern cars as well.

[Bibs]

It will be monitored by camera of course, but don't let that get you carried away 😂

[C8RKH]

If you mean cameras on the road then that will take years to put in place. Then, if they do put cameras in, they will be the new AI ones that can see inside your car too so you won't be able to speed, use your phone, eat or drink, shag your mistress etc....

Edited September 21 by Bravo73

[aquiss]

40 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

shag your mistress etc....

I was very open to all you other points....but this is a step too far. I purchased the Eletre to take full advantage of the rear!

[exeterjeep]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

If you mean cameras on the road then that will take years to put in place.

Everyone will be trying to use roads with no camera (yet) and all the back doubles to avoid them, just to save some cash.

You could drive round my field for free - no cameras apart from all the satellite monitoring ones.

[Bravo73]

5 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Like Ferris Bueller’s MGB kitcar 

MGB? More of a Mustang kit car, really:

https://automedia.revsinstitute.org/movie-cars-five-facts-about-that-ferrari-in-ferris-buellers-day-off/amp
 

Anyway, back to the topic…

 

(And aren’t odometer just reset electronically these days: https://vag-mileageblocker.co.uk etc etc?)

[Escape]

On 20/09/2024 at 14:41, jonwat said:

Public chargers are defined as rapid if they deliver at least 50 kWh of power, allowing a battery to fully recharge in about 30 minutes.

Another blatant lie! Half an hour at a 50kW charger is 25kWh, all but the smallest EVs have a battery much larger than that. So in practice a full charge will take 1 to 2 hours. It's elementary physics...
Why is it no one seems to be able to get the basic facts right in an article, regardless of being pro or con EVs?

As for mileage based road tax, this has been discussed in bhellgium and across the EU as well. And already put in place for HGVs in both Belgium and Germany (LKW maut). Those do indeed use a tracker box with a GPS, with frequent checks both manned and unmanned (cameras cross referencing the registration vs the tracker signal). It's implemented mainly on motorways and intended to make traffic that just passes through a country help pay for the road maintenance. As indicated above, at first there was a lot of extra traffic on those roads not part of the system, which resulted in the network being expanded to close obvious loopholes (like an A-road running in parallel to a motorway).

Implementing a similar system for passenger vehicles is very feasible, it's just a larger number of vehicles. And you can be sure if such a system does get installed, it will not only monitor your mileage but will soon be expanded for automatic speeding fines etc. But such a black box needs to be powered right? And fuses do fail, especially on older cars. 😁

We also have several insurance companies offering lower rates if you do less than 5k or 10k km annually. They do use the mileage recorded at the annual MOT as a reference. And yes, I've had one customer ask me to disconnect the speedo as she would go just over her limit and that would mean the car would be exempt from the plan for as long as she owned it. 

[C8RKH]

10 hours ago, Escape said:

Another blatant lie! Half an hour at a 50kW charger is 25kWh, all but the smallest EVs have a battery much larger than that. So in practice a full charge will take 1 to 2 hours. It's elementary physics...
Why is it no one seems to be able to get the basic facts right in an article, regardless of being pro or con EVs?

Because it doesn't suit their agenda and often people are just too lazy to think about what they've read Filipe. Also, just because the Charger says it is 50kwh, that doesn't mean you will actually get 50kwh. It depends on the total supply to site. How many chargers are in use and so the total load. Is Load Balancing going on across the site? Is the cars battery control unit limiting the power input to protect the battery. Etc etc etc.  People really are, in general, totally clueless around EV charging. Obviously, some owners get it and are clued up, but the vast majority of the public is clueless.

As an example he Eletre battery is, iirc, 112kwh - so if you stick to the recommended guideline you'll be charging 60% or so (keeping the battery between 20 and 80% for optimum life etc).  So even with the full 50kwh that will be around 1hr 10 minutes of charging won't it? For 60% which is 56kwh.

[Escape]

I totally agree, many (if not most) people are clueless, and not just about EVs, can't be bothered or maybe just don't want to know the truth. And yes, all of the lies about EVs (like being zero emission!) are clearly aimed at supporting the global agenda. Which also supplies the sceptics with plenty of ammo, as it's so easy to debunk. I didn't even want to get into all the other factors affecting charging time like you did, just point out the obvious error.

[C8RKH]

You're right Filip.

[pete]

intended to make traffic that just passes through a country help pay for the road maintenance. As indicated above, a

About time we charged foreign lorries for using our motorways. Must be a simple thing to do as they all come in through our ports where customs and excise are

[Bibs]

I can't see many commercial vehicles from abroad bother with current tolls, eg the QE bridge...

[C8RKH]

I agree with you @pete but not just road charging.

It would be easy to put a simple system in place to track all foreign vehicles in/out of the UK by linking to Ferry/Chunnel Systems.

Then for road use and fines (parking, toll, speeding and other traffic) they get flagged on exit. Border guard whips out the credit card machine and voila gees and penalties collected.

Just needs the will. The tech and processes are easy peasy. 

[Kimbers]

You are all forgetting my post of June. As of July all cars, not just EV's, must have speed limiting technology fitted. Currently this can be switched off, but its suspected in future it will not have this option.

Why am I mentioning this again? I hear you shout!

The system runs off a GPS system. How else could it know where you are and what the speed limit is in that area. As of July, in the UK, you can be tracked, so mileage charging doesn't need any new system. Your car is equipped to already do it! 

What did you think? That it was a safety feature? Pfffft. Its a way to track you and charge you when they want!

[Kimbers]

Not worth the metal they are made from apparently!

Higher leasing costs ‘cut BEV demand’ | Used EV prices to fall further (fleetnews.co.uk)

[C8RKH]

On 23/09/2024 at 10:33, Kimbers said:

You are all forgetting my post of June. As of July, in the UK, you can be tracked, so mileage charging doesn't need any new system. Your car is equipped to already do it! 

Nope. Not forgetting Tony. But that is NEW CARS only from July '24. So that's a few hundred thousand cars out of 34m. So how is that going to work then? Two tier road tax systems?

[drdoom]

On 20/09/2024 at 09:42, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

They had a chance to make it more equitable decades ago by abolishing road tax and putting the missing tax on fuel. The more you drive, the more you pay. Simples, but not so easy now with all these electric and hybrid vehicles.

Democŕacy with its knickers down - policy and vision subordinated to re-election imperative. Nice fodder for authoritarian propaganda.