VW faking emissions tests in USA?

[Advantage]

There seems to be trouble ahead for 500,000 diesel VWs in the US. They've been recalled for allegedly having illegal software installed which fudges the results of smog emission tests. NY Times clicky.

I wonder how isolated this is within certain areas of the industry?

[Chillidoggy]

I'm intrigued to learn how VW got rumbled, and how the software "knew" when it was being tested.

[comem47]

With this VW story in the news yesterday (and talk of a worse case fine approaching $18 billion), I can't see how the other VW story (them buying Red Bull F1 team) can also be true.  

[Bibs]

Potential fine for VW could be $18bn!

http://lovecars.com/blog/index.php/vw-cheated-on-clear-air-rules-says-fed/

Shares are down 18%...

[ramjet]

Can you imagine the media furor there would be if a little car maker like Lotus was found to be doing this?

[Kimbers]

Apparantly fitted with a cheat device during testing. We buy a lot of VW and I always wondered how they got such low emissions from their engines when their direct competitors, using similar engines couldn't get as good Co2. For example their old VW Polo had 89g/km when competitors were all around 109g/km.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819

[tinywillyuk]

Surely if the technology exists to cheat the test it could be adapted to operate full time?  Puzzler..

[Vulcan Grey]

I thought this was a pretty good summary.

http://jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-dieselgate-volkswagens-diesel-cheating-c-1731857018

How did the EPA find out?

Independent testing, and amazingly, testing that sought to prove VW’s diesels were really clean.

Bloomberg has a good recap of how this went down: A relatively small clean-air NGO, the International Council on Clean Transportation, noticed discrepancies between tests of diesel Volkswagens in Europe, so they borrowed equipment from West Virginia University to test the cars’ actual emissions in real-world driving in the U.S.

Rather than trying to cast doubts on Volkswagen, they’d hoped to prove that small diesels like the cars VW made could run cleanly. As they toldBloomberg:

While the VWs passed the lab tests performed by the California Air Resources Board, they failed the real-world tests, which measured tailpipe emissions.

Bloomberg reports VW engineers struggled to explain these results to the EPA and CARB after an investigation began. Regulators weren’t satisfied with that explanation, so they threatened to withhold certifications and effectively halt sales.

Only then did VW concede the cars had a cheat device. The EPA didn’t know about this before because they depend on automakers to self-certify their cars.

[Barrykearley]

What a complete and utter disgrace - shame on VW.

i wonder how many of their other cars they have cheated with??? VW is a huge group with a whole array of cars and derivatives. This could well be just the tip of the iceberg of cheating

[Tony K]

I've got to hand it to them for being clever, in a Smokey Yunick sort of way!   

[C8RKH]

With this VW story in the news yesterday (and talk of a worse case fine approaching $18 billion), I can't see how the other VW story (them buying Red Bull F1 team) can also be true.  

They have proven software to now get around the F1 engine regs - so good time for them to get into F1 and if it stops Horner whinging like a bloody cry baby then gotta be good......

[Bibs]

I read on The Telegraph website that their software would know when it was being tested and inject urea into the exhaust to lower the emissions. As stated above, why don't they do that all the time then (apart from the smell!)?

[C8RKH]

What a complete and utter disgrace - shame on VW.

i wonder how many of their other cars they have cheated with??? VW is a huge group with a whole array of cars and derivatives. This could well be just the tip of the iceberg of cheating

Wonder what shenanigans they have been up to across the Brands - Audi, Porsche etc........  Sort of blows away the smoke screen of German quality engineering, efficiency, compliance etc...

[Chillidoggy]

I read on The Telegraph website that their software would know when it was being tested and inject urea into the exhaust to lower the emissions. As stated above, why don't they do that all the time then (apart from the smell!)?

Loss of performance, apparently.

[Mark Blanchard]

And also, worst fuel consumption.

[C8RKH]

I see they are under investigation in Asia now too, but no news from the Eu - oh yes, that's right, VW probably own the EU car regulators.............

What's the betting on a US class action law suit on this. After all people will have made buying decisions based on falsified information. Wow, this could be huge. Oh wait, it's VW, they're German, they'll get away with it.

My god, why do I hate the VAG Group so much, I need to see a therapist. Oh wait, I had to deal with an Audi driver who was driving like a dick last night on the motorway, again. That's why....

Edited September 22, 2015 by C8RKH

[Bibs]

Could this see VAG go under? $18bn of fines in the USA let alone if they get sued and then fined/sued across the planet, £15bn off their stock market value in a day...

I bet the guy who signed this off thought he was being really clever that day! 

[C8RKH]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-millions-of-britons-could-be-driving-illegal-cars/ar-AAeAupf?li=AA9SkIr&ocid=iehp

Personally, I hope VAG gets absolutely taken to the cleaners over this, it should destroy their brand and image, but somehow I just think they will get away with a slap.

[Mark Blanchard]

11,000,000 VW cars fitted with the dodgy software.  So maybe more than $18 billion, as that was based on a figure of 450,000 cars.

[TBD]

Could this see VAG go under? $18bn of fines in the USA let alone if they get sued and then fined/sued across the planet, £15bn off their stock market value in a day...

I bet the guy who signed this off thought he was being really clever that day! 

It's the poor shareholders I'm worried about. The impact on the stock price is already significantly higher than any probable cost of fixing this, including fines. Whoever signed it off may go down in history as the greatest destroyer of shareholder value of all time.

[Bibs]

They didn't give Nick Leeson a job did they?

[Mark Blanchard]

As VW owns Porsche, wonder if they have dodgy software too.

So diesel Porsche Cayenne, Macan and Panamera sales are stopped and everyone goes out and buys a Lotus instead .

Edited September 22, 2015 by Mark Blanchard

[Chillidoggy]

I feel sorry for the possible impact on the company's employees.

[sailorbob]

You can bet it's not just VW who have trick software to help them through tests. Years ago there were tales of a manufacturer who's ecu behaved differently when being tested because it recognised the door being open during the test.

[atlasapl]

I doubt its just VW. I would be very surprised if it was, this could prove to be huge. I read somewhere today, cant remember where, that if they found VW to be cheating (somewhere in Asia I think) they would test all German makes of car. I wouldnt mind betting they are all at it. It could force them to change how they test for emissions. Maybe we finally find out just how much co2 cars actually emit.

Bet they are having second thoughts about spending all that cash on buying Red Bull F1 now.

Edited September 22, 2015 by atlasapl