The Donald.

[eeyoreish]

And now his team are selling mugs with the mugshot on. Possibly to mugs 🤨

[Chillidoggy]

And he’s made $7.1 million out of doing so!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66632882

[Bibs]

Wtf Iowa. 

[drdoom]

What to say that hasn't already been stated? Read today that recent polling of young adult Canadians shows striking measures of approval for the Donald. WTF Canada? Last night wrapped up viewing a comprehensive documentary on the burning of the Reichstag in 1933, and it reinforces my concerns that Trump's handlers are working to replicate the Nazi playbook closely. The most pressing aspect of the American political cycle for '24 will be whether sufficient common sense will prevail over populist impulses. The outcome will illuminate the present state of aggregate intelligence in that population. Fingers crossed, as I've no doubt there is real risk of Fascism taking hold.  

[calvan]

54 minutes ago, drdoom said:

..., as I've no doubt there is real risk of Fascism taking hold.  

I share your fear in that regard. If Trump does win re-election a clear sign of that happening will be a "spontaneous, grassroots" movement arising to repeal the 22nd amendment to the US Constitution. That's the provision that sets the two term limit for holding the office of president. 

[EldonZ]

At least you guys don't live in the US and are only indirectly effected by this chaos. When you see interviews with the religious people that comment that they believe God put Trump here to run the country. We step back and wonder how these religious people can believe that God would select one that has no morals that follow Christian beliefs.

I believe that if Trump had won his second term he would have selected one of his children as a proxy to be President if he could not figure out a way to run for a third term. Now, Trump is just running to try and avoid all of the criminal charges that are pending. The best way is to run and claim everything is political that is being done to him. If he manages to win then he can have his new DOJ shutdown all of the cases. For any that have already been tried, he can try and pardon himself. The only thing interesting about a pardon is that you have to admit that the charges are real and you are guilty of them. Also, no one knows if a self pardon is actually legally valid.

Later,
Eldon

[ramjet]

Ignoramus here.

How is the vote in Iowa being reported in Australia as a 'landslide victory' for The Donald?

That is only one state isn't it?

Surely one state does not hold that much sway or is Iowa then broken up into smaller 'regions' that sway overall numbers toward The Donald?

All I can say is that if he gets in and makes the moves that he has alluded to, it will be very interesting to see what his supporters think then.

Only it'll be too late.

[MPx]

As I see it, both the UK and US are doomed to ever more divisive leadership until we change our constitutions and get away from the two party system.  The history of periods of tenure suggest that the majority of voters are slightly right of centre - so there's a natural (albeit slight) bias to the policies of the Tories and Republicans.  Labour and Democrats tend to get in when a) they overtly move their policies a bit to the right and b) the Tories/Republicans get so drunk on power they lurch further to the right and corruption making themselves unelectable. 

For the voters its a rock and hard place.  Vote for sleezebags more likely to implement policies aimed at individual prosperity and enterprise while lining their own pockets and overseeing atrocities, or vote for a more woke regime of big state, huge "welfare", high spend, high tax and little chance or incentive to take responsibility for yourself and "get on".  No other choices exist - increasingly no middle ground and no third way.  Well not until the Chinese take over anyway.

[Kimbers]

1 hour ago, MPx said:

As I see it, both the UK and US are doomed to ever more divisive leadership until we change our constitutions and get away from the two party system.  The history of periods of tenure suggest that the majority of voters are slightly right of centre - so there's a natural (albeit slight) bias to the policies of the Tories and Republicans.  Labour and Democrats tend to get in when a) they overtly move their policies a bit to the right and b) the Tories/Republicans get so drunk on power they lurch further to the right and corruption making themselves unelectable. 

For the voters its a rock and hard place.  Vote for sleezebags more likely to implement policies aimed at individual prosperity and enterprise while lining their own pockets and overseeing atrocities, or vote for a more woke regime of big state, huge "welfare", high spend, high tax and little chance or incentive to take responsibility for yourself and "get on".  No other choices exist - increasingly no middle ground and no third way.  Well not until the Chinese take over anyway.

What Mike Said!

Though there is something about the phrase you get the Government you deserve. I see things heading that way here. Look at the SNP in Scotland. 

[EldonZ]

5 hours ago, ramjet said:

Ignoramus here.

How is the vote in Iowa being reported in Australia as a 'landslide victory' for The Donald?

That is only one state isn't it?

Surely one state does not hold that much sway or is Iowa then broken up into smaller 'regions' that sway overall numbers toward The Donald?

All I can say is that if he gets in and makes the moves that he has alluded to, it will be very interesting to see what his supporters think then.

Only it'll be too late.

They consider Iowa a landslide win because no one has ever won more than 42% before. Trump pulled in 51% so he must be a winner and not a loser, at least in Trump's eyes. 😝 The Iowa turn out was low by about 2/3 of the previous year so the thought is that most of the independents did not show up. What they also saw is that Trump managed to win all but one of the 99 counties. There is still the thought that he won't do well in the general election because he only received 51% of the votes. That means 49% of the other Republicans/Independents don't want him. As an incumbent candidate, his number should have been much higher.

Later,
Eldon

[Kimbers]

I'm not even sure I understand how he can stand for the highest office in the States.

If he had gone through what he had and done what he has here in the UK, he would fail a Vetting check to become a carer, Nurse, Child care assistant, Police, Fire Ambo..... pretty much any job where he could put people at risk either directly or indirectly by his actions!

How on Earth can they give him a teddy bear to look after yet alone the big red button!!

[EldonZ]

21 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

I'm not even sure I understand how he can stand for the highest office in the States.

If he had gone through what he had and done what he has here in the UK, he would fail a Vetting check to become a carer, Nurse, Child care assistant, Police, Fire Ambo..... pretty much any job where he could put people at risk either directly or indirectly by his actions!

How on Earth can they give him a teddy bear to look after yet alone the big red button!!

According to our constitution, being a convicted felon does NOT stop you from holding the office of the President. You can even be in jail at the time of holding the office. I know, it is absurd. The courts are still trying to decide if the 14th amendment, clause 3 actually applies to the President. We have two states that have removed him from the ballet so the Supreme Court will have to make a ruling. The problem is that we have 7 conservatives, 3 put on the bench by Trump, so no one knows which way the court is going to go.

Later,
Eldon

 

[andydclements]

It seems logical to me that the constitution wouldn't bar a convicted felon from office as many of the founding fathers would have been going against laws set by the ruling power at the time (The English / the empire) so if you take stock of that at the time, you'd come to the conclusion that you must not bar people who may be "political prisoners" etc. Interesting though, that insurrection is the (or an ) exception that it can bar you rom running even without conviction, and that's exactly what the founding fathers did (rose up against the (English colonial rule).

[EldonZ]

6 minutes ago, andydclements said:

It seems logical to me that the constitution wouldn't bar a convicted felon from office as many of the founding fathers would have been going against laws set by the ruling power at the time (The English / the empire) so if you take stock of that at the time, you'd come to the conclusion that you must not bar people who may be "political prisoners" etc. Interesting though, that insurrection is the (or an ) exception that it can bar you rom running even without conviction, and that's exactly what the founding fathers did (rose up against the (English colonial rule).

The 14th amendment was not added until after the Civil War.

Later,
Eldon

 

[drdoom]

That is to say the "first" civil war. Hope it ever remains the sole such conflict.

[EldonZ]

1 hour ago, drdoom said:

That is to say the "first" civil war. Hope it ever remains the sole such conflict.

Yes, if I read your statement correctly that the first civil war was with the ruling class from across the Pond!

I was reading where Germany and other European countries are starting to prepare for a possible Trump reign.  Considering what he did to our foreign relations the first time around, I cannot image how bad the second go around will be. The really scary thing is that now that he saw his failings in selecting his cabinet the first time, they are already lining up Trump supporters for the positions. This time there will be no buffers stopping him from doing whatever he wants.

Later,
Eldon 

[drdoom]

Not really what I meant. What worries me further is the possibility that Americans have been sufficiently rendered gun positive to the extent they might go at each other in numbers if conditioned in the manner we see Trump working at consistently. I am pondering the odds of a true, 2nd Civil War.

[C8RKH]

4 minutes ago, drdoom said:

I am pondering the odds of a true, 2nd Civil War.

Hollywood, in several films and shows, seems to suggest it will be Texas that leads the charge to break away. Hmmm....

[EldonZ]

6 minutes ago, drdoom said:

Not really what I meant. What worries me further is the possibility that Americans have been sufficiently rendered gun positive to the extent they might go at each other in numbers if conditioned in the manner we see Trump working at consistently. I am pondering the odds of a true, 2nd Civil War.

Yes, things are getting crazy in those regards. It is amazing how large the divide is getting and how people do not want to listen to common sense. The last poll done, during the Iowa primary, found that 2/3 of the people still believe that Biden did not win. Also, 2/3 would still be willing to vote for Trump if convicted. Since Trump keeps saying how he has been wronged, these people believe it. They have heard it so many times that it must be true. When other political leaders will not denounce these claims, it only reinforces Trump's rhetoric.

If Trump doesn't win in his next run, we may just have another civil war or unrest. Trump will already be saying that the only way he cannot win is if the election is a fraud.

Later,
Eldon

[drdoom]

Belief over knowledge, the overarching point in all of this.

[EldonZ]

10 minutes ago, drdoom said:

Belief over knowledge, the overarching point in all of this.

Not beliefs but falsehoods!

Later,
Eldon

[ramjet]

So watching the News tonight and the report was that Trump kept interrupting the witnesses on the stand.

The judge threatened to have him removed from the court, but didn't.

I thought that would have been instant contempt of court?

I fail to understand why many that support him, including Senators, do not understand how unhinged this guy is.

His niece pops up on TV occasionally here in Australia and even she thinks he is a criminal.

My next fear would be how far his influence may extend to my country?

He'll sell Ukraine down the river. I am happy to be corrected though.

[EldonZ]

The sad thing is that Trump keeps claiming how he is being treated unfairly in the court rooms. What is actually happening is that he is getting preferential treatment because the judges have to handle him with kit-gloves. If it was you or me that acted this way, we would be jail. The thought is that the judges are treating him this way to give him less of a chance on appeal.

Trump likes to sue or be sued by his vendors and basically win by making them lose more money than the suit is worth or the run out of money. Now he is taking on the government which has much deeper pockets and he cannot out dollar them. So the only thing he has left is to delay and delay more. Find lawyers that will do what he wants, not what is proper judicial behavior. So the  lawyers keep lowering their standards until they cannot take it anymore and quit.

The saddest thing about this behavior is that his followers see it as strength against the system instead of the toddler behavior that it is.

Later,
Eldon

[C8RKH]

6 hours ago, ramjet said:

My next fear would be how far his influence may extend to my country?

I think you have more than enough to worry about with the depth and breadth of the infiltration into your country and Government, of the Chinese.

As a small Island nation, you will always be under attack 🤣

1 hour ago, EldonZ said:

toddler behavior

In the UK, we'd call it "todger behaviour".

[pete]

On 16/11/2022 at 20:12, ChrisJ said:

Why can't the US put forward younger, more credible, candidates?

I do have a question for our US members. Can Obama stand again? Is the limit 2 terms full stop or 2 consecutive terms?

 

maybe he can`t but hjs wife could