Porsche 911 Turbo Vs Turbo esprit...

[jack.pe]

Drove a 930 the other week...and did a little video with the Lotus.

80's icons.. and no, that's not referring to me and my mate Frank but rather his Porsche 911 Turbo and my own Lotus Esprit turbo.
Hope you enjoy it.

[The Pits]

Yours sure is better looking! Less likely to end up in a hedge one day too. But guess which one is worth about 10 times more?! And some here think the Esprits are over priced!

[Chillidoggy]

Thanks, I enjoyed watching that.

Have to say I do love those 911 rear wheelarches, in fact I think that is the best looking version of the 911, bar none.

[jack.pe]

Cheers guys, it was a great day out! 

[Steve V8]

Great video Jack, interesting, entertaining, and loved the banter, you guys are sooooo protective about your rides, and so you should be! Your Esprit looks stunning, and totally blows the Porsche away in the beauty department, I'm sure the Porsche would edge it in a straight line on the drag strip, but that Lotus is much faster when posing for photo's. 

Cheddar Gorge is 8 miles from me, (you could have popped in for a cup of tea) it used to be great fun blasting up through on a summers evening, but since the rise of Bradley Wiggins and the MAMIL's (Middle Aged Men In Lycra) it's become a bit of a nightmare. l hope no cyclists were harmed in the making of your video (not).

[ramjet]

Well done Jack. Enjoyed that.  

[mcx]

Great vid, thanks very much guys. 

[NW76]

Great Job! Really enjoyed it. Makes me want to test drive an Esprit Turbo as well ;-) 

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks for sharing Jack, really enjoyable to watch.

I swapped my 84 Turbo for a 1980 Red SC 3.0 911 many years ago, although not a Turbo I did enjoy the 911 experience. I later bought a 944 Turbo S which was much better and more rewarding to drive.

Agree with Jonny about prices, just look at 911 prices online now....wow!

The Lotus is still the winner in my eyes, once driven never forgotten which is why I come back for more! 

Your turbo looks great in Essex blue as well, even nicer now you have the original steering wheel fitted.

Dave  

[The Pits]

So that's Frank from that infamous Porsche 964 video a few years ago. He's something of an 80's icon himself! He comes across a lot better on your video, even with that comedy beard!

[jack.pe]

On 23/10/2016 at 02:32, Steve V8 said:

Great video Jack, interesting, entertaining, and loved the banter, you guys are sooooo protective about your rides, and so you should be! Your Esprit looks stunning, and totally blows the Porsche away in the beauty department, I'm sure the Porsche would edge it in a straight line on the drag strip, but that Lotus is much faster when posing for photo's. 

Cheddar Gorge is 8 miles from me, (you could have popped in for a cup of tea) it used to be great fun blasting up through on a summers evening, but since the rise of Bradley Wiggins and the MAMIL's (Middle Aged Men In Lycra) it's become a bit of a nightmare. l hope no cyclists were harmed in the making of your video (not).

Hey Steve.. would have definitely popped in if we had known!

On 23/10/2016 at 09:20, NW76 said:

Great Job! Really enjoyed it. Makes me want to test drive an Esprit Turbo as well ;-) 

Cheers!

On 23/10/2016 at 10:05, The Pits said:

So that's Frank from that infamous Porsche 964 video a few years ago. He's something of an 80's icon himself! He comes across a lot better on your video, even with that comedy beard!

Yes.. he's a great bloke! There was loads more banter but it had to be cut since i was aiming for artound 10 mins watching time

On 23/10/2016 at 09:24, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Thanks for sharing Jack, really enjoyable to watch.

I swapped my 84 Turbo for a 1980 Red SC 3.0 911 many years ago, although not a Turbo I did enjoy the 911 experience. I later bought a 944 Turbo S which was much better and more rewarding to drive.

Agree with Jonny about prices, just look at 911 prices online now....wow!

The Lotus is still the winner in my eyes, once driven never forgotten which is why I come back for more! 

Your turbo looks great in Essex blue as well, even nicer now you have the original steering wheel fitted.

Dave  

Cheers Dave, I love the Essex Blue paint too!

 

On 23/10/2016 at 02:40, ramjet said:

Well done Jack. Enjoyed that.  

Thanks!!

On 23/10/2016 at 08:06, mcx said:

Great vid, thanks very much guys. 

Cheers!

[megalomaniac]

Really nice video!

[Jacques]

Nice video, thankfully not like the ordinary teenager video, where they are more interested in presenting themselves, rather than driving.

Anyway, I think it's  tiny bit unfair to drive a tuned late version 3,0L turbo against a stock 2,2 turbo. It should have been a 3,0 turbo unmodified. Or at least an unmodified 3,3 turbo.

Still, both cars have a high limit for what they can do, or rather what a driver can do with them.

I like both shapes, as the original 911 turbo rear body is so good looking. Esprit's just way ahead in terms of design.

I also think the comment about the racing vs. the rally heritage, when it comes to driving position, is almost spot on.

Me? I'd take the Esprit any day

Delete that. I'd take the 911 turbo, sell it and get two Esprits.

Or even better still: get the Sport300.

Well done, and thanks for sharing a great made video. Looking forward to seeing more of the same

Cheers,

Jacques.

 

[TpupNomad]

Great video and beautiful cars.  I actually traded my 85 Esprit for a 911 back in 1988 when my son was born.  I needed four seats and stuck a baby seat in the back and that was it!  I do love 911s and Lotus but I'm fortunate enough to own both.

[Tocus]

Great Vid, but why is everybody saying: " lotus it falls apart" never had something with that, just give the car good service and drive it enough,

dont let it take over your garage, then its all fine, Thanks for Sharing!

[Rolls]

The surge from the porky is hard to beat though.  It's also a very practical car - plenty of leg room, storage, rear passengers, comfortable seating position etc... No other classic car makes me feel as confident in the corners. 

 

Really enjoyed the vid ???

[Jacques]

I have a little different opinion on that subject. In my humble view, the Lotus Esprit is the better car. Not because I have one myself, but let's take a little closer look on those cars.

The 911 cars in th early days had a very short wheelbase. So short that they would quite easily spin around themselves. Only in modern 911 which have plenty of computercontrolled Engineering built into it, they have managed to get it under control. The Esprit is much better driving and right from the start. The 911 cars also have som other issues, and let me name just a few. For example the specific Places they rust, the very soft engine cases, which twist and bend, therefore shearing main bearing on the crankshaft. The Esprit's 2,2L engine? No probs. And I might add, despite the liter effect is that much higher than on Porsche 911. Here around my Water we have had a man for decades (just recently passed away), who singlehanded lived from one task: to correct the twisted enginecases which many Porsche centers had repaired by installing new bearings which quickly went dead Again. This guy (Alex Thomsen) developed a Tool to cut the twisted enginecases straight Again, so that the rebuilt crankshaft would not destroy it's bearings shortly after. He demonstrated this himself, and over the years he rebuilt many many hundreds of aircooled 911 engines coming in from many countries.

Now let's have a short look at some of the newer Porsches, for example the 996 model, and to a large extent also covers some of the issues on the 997 (early type 1) and Boxster. But since it's about the 911, we'll forget that for now. The plastic quality used on the 996 is a very thin and brittle one which means, that after a number of years, plastic tabs break off and the owner have to change plastic parts here and there every now and then. Let's also mention the plastic plate that support the head lamps. At around 100 gbp (at least in Scandinavia) per piece, they very often, I repeat very often break once you have them installed and want to say change a bulb or change a headlamp from say a stone chip. Click and destroy. On the Esprit? No. Another example is the perpendicular plastic "tray" they have installed underneath the front, which directs a bit of air. But on really many 911 cars it's broken. Is that the case on the Esprit? No. Go look for yourself and see. Let's have a look at the IMS bearings. On the first series 996 there were installed a double bearing and if you run the car frequently, and change the engine oil frequently, it's okay and should last fairly long. But underserviced cars or garagequeens, plus more over the later type 2 996 cars had a single bearing, which was not as strong. Now, the rate of these failures are actually very low, say some 2 percent or there about out of the around 176.000 996's alone made, but it'll cost you an engine if it goes. Only at type 2 of the 997 (save the turbo models which had a totally differnet engine build up), this was corrected. The Esprit? No probs. But let's move on to a tiny bit of interrior so small, that one should think that nothing can go wrong really. The ashtray in the center console near the armrest. Well, it does. and it always breaks. Well, very often that is. The Esprit have no problems here. So instead let's have a small mention of the engine chains and their tensioners, which Wear Down really fast and have to be repaired or changed, before more serious engine failure arises. Or the gearbox bearings for that matter. Or let's mention that if you fill up with fuel to the top, and the hose clicks off, and you like so many people do on all types of cars, give it the last bit of drops of fuel, initiates an cel lamp/code. And the list goes on and on.

But my point is not to put down the 911 cars, but to demonstrate, that the 911 cars, each of the many models over the years, also indeed have both construction problems and failures along with, let's call it in a mild way, "exciting" driving charactaristics. Something that the Esprit in it's near 30 year production run, did not suffer from. What it did have though, is a list of errors in engine and other systems, that failed, like on let's face it, all other cars. But mostly from neglect, and that is an entirely different matter than a Constructions case.

The Esprit on it's hand have it's fair share of "fun" built into them, some from neglect, some from being not super duper made. The gearbox failure is one talk, that is a bit like the 911 ims talk. It's more the talk of the internet than in reality. From whenever I began to read about the Esprit, I always heard about a bad gearshift and a super fragile never lasting gearbox. Well, how many have actually collapsed? Not many. Like in the case of the ims bearings. But Porsche owners are a bit "shy" to talk about it, where as Lotus people, don't mind. My point is, that many forms their oppinion via what they read someone else have written, and those on their hand, may or may not be actually right. So much nonscense have been passed over from one person to another via the web. Both negative and positive. All brands. The same can be said about the fuel tanks and the Esprit V8 piston/bearing/sealant case. Over all, I'd say the Esprit have proved to be a much better car, that many deemed it to be ever since it came along. Luckily. Well, no. It's nothing to do with luck. Because Lotus usually doesn't do things wrong. Finally, I'd like to mention the aspect of Money. Lotus have had very Little money and very few men with very many good ideas. Where as Porsche (and Ferrari) have had a lot of money and a lot of people with only some good ideas. That's just to demonstrate the ingenuity of Lotus cars. As we also see it in the Esprit.

Think for example of all the people including many 911 drivers, who laughed at Lotus Esprit having A "plastic body". The Ferrari owners too, for that matter. I think that today, no one laughs of a composite body Shell Construction any more, as many have adopted the idea. Lotus' idea so many decades ago, were right. Or think of the monocoque (save for the Lancia Lambda in 1922), the rear wing, the aerodynamics, active suspension, the ground-effect, the under car diffuser, radiators moved away from the front to the rear, the Cosworth DFV engine (made by two former Lotus engineers), rear suspension struts and so on. Most of which road going Lotus cars have adopted and/or benefitted from. Or the position of the fuel tanks of the Esprit. Or what Lotus have been able to do with a  2 or 2,2 Liter engine in comparison to say Porsche 911. My point in this is, that in my view the Esprit is a better constructed car.

Even if we joke about it, we'll see it clearly. The Esprit have pop up head lights, and the 911 have pop off head lights (clue: search behind the head lamps, and you shall see).

Sorry Guys, this is surely not intended as a pun, but merely a fair view on the matter, rather than the Porsche biased one, that oh so often protrudes it's ugly head on the web and in mags.  Look at a 1990 Esprit Turbo SE and a similar 911 from 1990. Sigh...  The Esprit is much better designed, have a much better chassis, a much faster engine, much better fuel consumption, a much nicer and better supporting interror, and much better road manners. The 911 is a nice and good sports car, but it kind of pales in comparison. Even if you're a unknowing child taking a look at both of them. The 911 is fast looking and well designed, but the Esprit is simply out of this world. Nuff' said.

Rear passenger Space in the 911? Yeah right... Boot Space for practical use? Hmm... I think I'll vote even the Esprit to be better in this department too. On a twisted Winding road my 27 year old Esprit can outgun my friends much newer 911 pretty easy. On a straight road, accelerating, the same thing happens. In real life, it doesn't matter too much as long as we take care of ourselves, others and have fun in the meantime. But the talk on these two cars is not about sanity, but about emontions and what can potentially be done with both of them  

Personally I'd say that the press always have been and still certainly is very biased towards Porsche. The owners are so much more pletifull and the potential customer base buying into reading about the 911 is therefore so much bigger. Or said in another way: I'd never trust them with my life, cat, wife nor my bank account. Fun? Yes. Entertaining? Certainly. Great? Absolutely. True? Errrmmm. Not entirely.

Each to his or her own of course. But let's be honest about what the cars can do, and what happens over the years. Personally, I find them all interesting and entertaining, great design and with lot's of fun factor built into them. And that is after all, what drives us to have these cars  Me? As Roy says it: to have both (which I don't but surely would like to).

Kind regards to everyone, also the 911 League

Jacques.