Future of Lotus

[jep]

Yep, Europa (2000s era) was a project for Proton - an Asia only car. Something changed, I don't know the specifics but Lotus were instructed to stick a yellow and green badge on it and get it in the showrooms of Europe. 

I remember Bell and Colvill sales director basically refusing to sell it. Unless a customer walked in and insisted, he wasn't gonna put you in it.

Justin 

 

[mg4lotus]

I didn't know the history but it sounds a bit like the proposed Lotus SUV (getting back on topic )

[Spinney]

On 08/02/2021 at 20:31, C8RKH said:

Wasn't it just a rebodied VX220?  Contrary to what people think the VX and Elise were not the same chassis I believe with the VX being slightly longer/wider than the Elise making it ideal for the Europa's GT purpose.

Are you sure about that Andy? I was told by the Vauxhall exec responsible for the VX220, that they took the S1 Elise chassis and the only redesign was to have lower sills for slightly easier entry. Lotus subsequently used the exact same modified chassis in the S2 Elise. Engine mounts etc are obviously different but it’s the same in all other respects. 
The VX body panels make the car look larger but it’s the same chassis with several interchangeable parts. 

[C8RKH]

Not sure at all @Spinney, it may just be folklore or fake news that I have picked up on! Happy to be corrected.

 

[Spinney]

The same Vauxhall fella told me that in hindsight he slipped up by not putting a clause in their contract with Lotus preventing them using the same modified chassis, which GM had paid to redesign.

They were taken by surprise when Lotus announced the face lifted S2 Elise using ‘their’ modded chassis. He said they had expected the S1 to continue for a few more years before being replaced. 😁

[jep]

I think that is right @Spinney. I recall no Elise being available to dealers in late 2000 between S1 and S2 - and the strong rumour at the time was GM had gone legal against Lotus for use of the modified S1 VX chassis for S2 Elise. Production was perhaps halted for a while. 

Reminiscent of Essex Esprit Turbo and S3 version, in getting someone else to pay for your facelift car. 

Justin 

 

[Spinney]

Getting others to pay for development whilst Lotus themselves were always a bit skint is something they were very adept at I think. 
I’m sure ACBC himself would’ve approved of such tactics. 😉

[PaulCP]

It wasn't just paying for the development, I understand that Vauxhall also paid for the building of a new building & assembly line which was subsequently handed over to Lotus.

Correct that the VX was built on a modified S1 chassis which was also subsequently used for the S2

The type116, whilst being a bit of a costly PR exercise for Vauxhall (not helped by that awful Gryf Recce-Jones initial avert), became a success for Lotus in more ways than 1. Something that they will never admit in public!

[jep]

I think it was Griffin Rhys-Jones who did the VX220 adverts.

Justin

[Spinney]

6 hours ago, PaulCP said:

It wasn't just paying for the development, I understand that Vauxhall also paid for the building of a new building & assembly line which was subsequently handed over to Lotus.

Correct that the VX was built on a modified S1 chassis which was also subsequently used for the S2

The type116, whilst being a bit of a costly PR exercise for Vauxhall (not helped by that awful Gryf Recce-Jones initial avert), became a success for Lotus in more ways than 1. Something that they will never admit in public!

Yep that’s right, they did, including improving quality control using modern production line techniques.

GM actually put quite a lot of money into Lotus to ensure the VX220 production met their standards. Quite ironic really when you look at the sort of shitboxes they were producing themselves at that time! 😂

[Arregueti]

On 08/02/2021 at 22:45, jep said:

Yep, Europa (2000s era) was a project for Proton - an Asia only car. Something changed, I don't know the specifics but Lotus were instructed to stick a yellow and green badge on it and get it in the showrooms of Europe. 

I remember Bell and Colvill sales director basically refusing to sell it. Unless a customer walked in and insisted, he wasn't gonna put you in it.

Justin 

 

Genuinely curious. What was so bad about it, if I may ask? Was the refusal to sell them based purely on esthetics or rather on dynamic shortfalls? I remember chatting to a technician in a Lotus dealer saying that the GM powerplant (the turbo, basically) didn´t suit the car. Are they good cars otherwise?

[Bibs]

They're very small, not really the GT car they were intended to be. 

[Spinney]

The Europa was in the showrooms at the time I was ordering my Elise SC and I have to admit that having seen it, I was quite tempted. I’ve always been rather partial to a fastback design!

[jep]

@Arregueti I was only passing on a memory, I am no expert on Europa. The sales director at B&C at the time was a passionate Lotus man (still is but has moved even closer to the marque). I suspect (but do not know) that the mood at Lotus about the new Europa was that it had been forced upon them. 

The Elise was so brilliant, as was Exige, the Europa was not a further step up. It was at best a sideways slide and as Bibs says, not a brilliant GT car.

I am sure there is nothing 'wrong' with Europa as a fun sports car. But it cannot be regarded as a legendary Lotus, as it is neither as nimble as Elise or as comprehensive as Evora. 

I must be clear, I am not dishing Europa - just that at the time,  it was not the event perhaps the salesmen wanted. Or the factory.

Justin

[Bibs]

There's a topic here from over 15 years ago!! 

 

[Arregueti]

4 minutes ago, Arregueti said:

 

@jep

Oh, I see who you are talking about. 🙂

Yes, I understand a Lotus GT has being a difficult sale for quite some time now, and it is even harder when you have to compete with an icon soft-top rival at home, and the house itself... The noughties years' (GM/Proton) look like very troubled waters from where we stand now.

Just as @Spinney, I do like a fastback (and the underdog, generally). I did consider them after seeing one being showcased by Lotus at Spa in one of the Lotus Cup races back in 2008, but then the Evora was released...  ...and here we are... Worth having Lotus trying the GT path, if you ask me.

Let's see what type 131 brings next.

 

[jep]

I have a weak spot for Europa - love the fast-back design. Brown leather option with gunmetal coachwork, add in a turbo (do love a turbo, esp if it has a bit of lag) and I would be happy. But would it be as good and versatile as Evora? As good on a B road as Elise? I doubt it. I certainly would not object to finding out first hand.

And probably depreciation-free these days.

Justin

[Spinney]

After the Elise SC, I was smitten by the delightful V6 Exige, which also happens to be a fast back design.

As an aside, I blame Jamie Matthews at Bell & Colvill entirely for that purchase. I had no intention of chopping in the Elise but he went and dangled their Exige demonstrator keys in front of me. Well what’s a chap to do when faced with that kind of temptation eh? One drive and I was hooked. 😁

Next up was my current Evora which, of course, Jamie twisted my arm into driving. I tell you, that man is a danger to your wallet - be warned!

No way am I answering the phone to him when the type 131 is finally revealed - oh no! 😉😁

Truth is, I just can’t say no to a new Lotus and would find it nigh on impossible to buy from anybody but Jamie. He is a rarity in the car sales world, a true gent, and I really hope he hasn’t suffered too badly during the current Covid situation. 

[PAR]

19 hours ago, jep said:

I think it was Griffin Rhys-Jones who did the VX220 adverts.

Justin

I think it deserves a trip back to memory lane for what was voted worst car advert at the time!
 

truly atrocious, if you bought a VX220, you need to specify you didn’t have a TV and therefore didn’t see it.

[jep]

10 hours ago, Spinney said:

Truth is, I just can’t say no to a new Lotus and would find it nigh on impossible to buy from anybody but Jamie. He is a rarity in the car sales world, a true gent, and I really hope he hasn’t suffered too badly during the current Covid situation.

Spot on.

Jamie still talks to me despite the fact I have driven any number of B&C demonstrators and the only car I have ever bought was my wonderful Evora NA (at 8 years old), that I never saw or drove prior.

Justin

[TdM]

Ah, the Vauxhall advert has a bit of road in it, big wide open sweepers that I've always wondered where it is. Seems to be used in filming quite a bit a number of car reviews have been filmed there and I also saw it in Bridgerton (yes, I watched it). I'm not sure if it's a closed bit of track. Drives me mad trying to find out where it is!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Is it not what was then Vauxhall’s own test track at Millbrook Proving Ground, Bedfordshire? If not maybe Chobham, Surrey? Both get used a lot for magazine road tests and TV work. If there’s ever a road traffic accident/incident on a UK TV show, it’s invariably filmed at one of these locations. To the casual observer, it looks like a public highway, but obviously it’s not.

[Stubox]

Longcross studios. Car wow use it now. The marketing director was moved on after that film....

[Spinney]

2 hours ago, PAR said:

I think it deserves a trip back to memory lane for what was voted worst car advert at the time!
 

truly atrocious, if you bought a VX220, you need to specify you didn’t have a TV and therefore didn’t see it.

I love the last line in that ad “Vauxhall, raising the standard.” 
They certainly weren’t referring to the standard of advertising were they. 😂

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

On 06/02/2021 at 17:09, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Oh no, not another new 911!

I’ve got a sneaking feeling that I may have been right...

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-porsche/2021-porsche-911-gt3-reveal-imminent/43745