Future of Lotus

[silverfrost]

The gold tape is heat repellent I think Chris,  The airbox and pipework and also brake airducting is covered in the stuff.  

Looks an amazing bit of kit that car ! Should be green or jps colours though !

[Spinney]

Yes, the gold coating is there to reflect heat, just as McLaren did with their F1 in the engine bay and as used on many other race cars for the same reason. 

[Bravo73]

On 23/06/2018 at 00:40, Vulcan Grey said:

@Bravo73

I think you are thinking of the Evora that ran in the GTE class at LeMans and in the ALMS series.

Nope. Definitely the GT4. As is now being run (and winning) in the Lotus Cup Europe series by several teams. The GT4’s engine is essentially in the same place.

I’m trying very hard to not keep responding to your posts @NedaSay but I’m afraid that I just can’t help myself. I’m not saying that it can’t be done. I’m just saying that it is considerably harder and more expensive than you seem to be implying. (ie take a GT430, paint it green, put some numbers on it, complete an FIA checklist and take it racing). 

The Cosworth version of the V6 shares the same block as the road car and that’s about it. The intake, cams, pistons, crank, exhaust, ECU etc etc are all different. You try putting one in a road Evora and see how you get on. So, I stand by assertion that they are not very similar. 

[silverfrost]

Yes the comp cars will be way more developed, just take for instance the vorsprung duch Technic Quattro, it was built on the production line but the comp car was totally different performance wise. It was plain evil !

They have a basic things to stick to regarding rules. Then throw as much tech, lightweight bits and money at the car as possible and then they go racing.

Put a set of slicks on a GT430 from the factory i.e customers car on the track with pro comp cars and it will get lapped quite a few times even if a product driver was behind the wheel.

Motoracing is an entirely different beast from factory produced cars as they have to compromise regarding some forms of comfort and meeting regulations for British roads. 

No matter how much bhp or carbon fibre they leave the showroom with.

Motorsport there is no compromise !

 

[chipp]

Don't know how to carry a quote from one topic to another but does this picture help.

It was the Stratton Motorsport entry in the GT4 round at Snetterton last year.

(bum, don't seem to have worked either)

 

chipp

Edited June 24, 2018 by Bibs
lack of talent

[KAS-118]

Lotus have appointed Marcus Blake as Commercial Director - previously at Aston Martin https://www.am-online.com/news/people-news/2018/06/28/lotus-appoints-marcus-blake-as-commercial-director

Seems like Geely are very serious about developing the brand 👍

[silverfrost]

Very good call !  Aston Martin have come on leaps and bounds in the past few years financially.   Definitely a step in the right direction bringing in folks like this.

[NedaSay]

Nice move indeed

[Frickin_idiot]

I expect a fair few more similar level appointments over the coming year. Good to see the team being beefed up.

[NedaSay]

And Lotus will be present at Goodwood with their own stand!

[hedgerley]

And on one of the big stands this time, alongside Polestar, Aston Martin, Mini, BMW, Tesla et al. Not tucked away in the margins. Very positive news.

[scotty435]

Could we have news of the new models, a clay model, Designers drawings at Goodwood?

[NedaSay]

We can only wish!

[jonnyboy]

I guess  lot of the Evora and Exiges future will be tied up in their contract with Toyota. If they have 3 years to run with the contract that is a bit of a problem as you would think that getting a Geely engine into the cars will be a matter of urgency to them.  Might as well design a new car while your at it. I seriously doubt they will just be able to "drop" Toyota contractually. 

We are hurtling towards a year of Geely ownership and nothing has happened yet. Does anyone else not find that odd? I'm sure there are a lot of people that would seriously start planning to by something like a hybrid Esprit but we need to know what the plan is? So far I think we know the Elise is for the chop and that the Evora is likely to be the entry point to the brand and that they would like an SUV but that will be made in China. You still can't get half the parts when you go to order them so clearly there has been no actual cash injection at Hethel yet. I would say some sort of strategy announcement is a bit more than overdue really....

I've long said that it isn't a given that they will even continue production. It's not impossible to forsee a situation where the badge simply lives on in the form of a Chinese manufactured SUV. Are they going to spend £200 million on a new sportscar they they are almost guaranteed not to make any money from? It's an incredibly risky move to start squaring up to McLaren/Ferrari/Lamborghini when the attempt to square up to Porsche has been a valiant but limited success. 

[Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh]

1 hour ago, jonnyboy said:

 It's an incredibly risky move to start squaring up to McLaren/Ferrari/Lamborghini when the attempt to square up to Porsche has been a valiant but limited success. 

The risk is really worth it. Facing Porsche can´t be the task for any small production sports car company. Turning Lotus against Porsche is a folly.

But if Lotus will challenge McLaren they will succeed. The brand name is similar powerful. 

So simple step up.
An Esprit with the right electronic package, right engine (V8) can do that. But not under 225 k entry cost. The entry cost is the key to success in todays world sports car market. Today below 100 k? A lot of people do not even look at a brand then at all ... they do not look into anything below V8, Twin Turbo and a certain performance level. Lotus stayed below for too long. The Evora did good already.

If I walk through the car park at the Nürburging in the paddock - if I don´t have to take the BMW I might be the only Lotus and even my old Evora gets attention. It is the true sports car shape. Even in between a bunch of 991 GT3 RS people look. But it is simply to "small engined" ... the Esprit can do it. Plain Image booster. High brand awareness. Selling them to a new group of customers and then getting in the money with the SUV.


PS: in 1 year in the big automotive business nothing will change.
It takes longer to discuss the new company e-mail design.  
 

[jonnyboy]

Brand is totally key and and lack of investment in the brand is one of lotus' main problems. You buy a McLaren you are a part of F1 basically. Ferrari likewise they are very strong brands. McLaren are even getting away with using turbos and having crap sounding cars and still owning the sector that Lotus are aiming for. Maybe it's time to go racing again. Very big ask of Geely but a good way to mount the challenge if they do continue building cars. 

Unfortunately these days you have to have a cool brand. If people bought cars properly based on how good they are to drive them Lotus wouldn't  loose 40 million quid every year and Porsche would have gone bust. Lotus have a nice heritage but all of their achievements in motorsport are so far in the past now they can't rely on that for brand image. If you ask 10 people what Lotus are known for they will probably still say unreliability, lack of quality control and endless special editions. There is a huge mountain to climb and there must be at some level some assessment going on in terms of viability. 

[bosshog]

Jonny - I think Geely management have only been in the ground a few weeks not a whole year. JMG only just left. Things are only 'just' starting I would think.

Be interesting whether they keep the Evora platform or if it gets replaced completely after the Elise replacement/update.

Edited July 15, 2018 by bosshog

[jonnyboy]

There is no new Elise from what I hear. 

[bosshog]

Well I mean whatever the new entry level one is going to be

[pete757]

Time for the Lotus PR team to step in...

Even now, we still here LOTUS... Lots of Trouble etc etc... The fact is since the Elise was introduced, Lotus reliability is excellent.

Not sure WHY people hang onto the negativity of old... and tar new products with the same brush.

Walking around Goodwood the other day, the Evora looks every bit the part alongside Mclarens, and IMHO a lot better looking than a McLaren and a lot of other 'Supercars' as well. I wonder if the Evora had a McLaren or Ferrari badge on it, it would still not be a first choice sports car at the price point. 

Reliability is excellent, re-sale excellent, performance excellent! And not a brutally expensive car to maintain unlike McLarens!

 

[Bruss]

Lotus PR team. Lol

[Steffen_Leitgeb-LSWGmbh]

... in the 200k+ area reliability can´t be the major key and also the not brand name - otherwise McLaren wouldn´t be successful.
They never had a big reputation for street cars and what I heard of several of my customers these cars park a lot in their garages ... waiting for updates to be street ready again.

McLaren simply shows the way for Lotus to step up and gain new (maybe less critical) customers (Esprit or Evora 2.0). The budget is there now.

@pete757 is basically right.

[jonnyboy]

Yes reliability is one thing that I have to press home sometimes. We wouldn't be able to self warranty as we do if the cars weren't reliable. That in itself is just a hangover from the head gasket days of the rover engine.  Maybe a sore point for all those people that have broken down in the new ones though!

Steffen if you just re read the first bit of that post. £200k cars the brand is not a consideration is this a typo? McLaren show the way that a brand is the car. They are pretty and go quick but the fact the brand is out there in front of a billion people winning races is the top thing that will sell a McLaren. You own one of those you re really buying into something. Brand at the supercar level is 99% of everything. Look at the NSX. It's made no impact because you know what? Honda don't make peoples dinkles feel funny. Lotus have the potential to do it but it's a huge task that would need a budget in the multiple tens of millions over a decade to get level with McLaren. Ferrari are peerless in this area too. Lambo again make pretty OK car that look a bit bonkers but the brand again is very very strong. 

The bottom line is that if you spend 200k on a car it has to be cool. 

Pete is exactly right that you could stick a McLaren badge onto a GT430 and the order book would be full for 3 years in an instant. But the brand isn't there at the moment not as a peer to the supercar boys. 

Having thought a bit about this issue it dawned on me that there is precedent for making a big car brand "cool" and it was done by Renault or specifically Renaultsport. They spent a ton of cash going into F1 and raised the profile of the brand. Going back to the early 2000s Renault had reasonable image issues but a succession of cool cars combined with big profile raising has seen them come to dominate the hot hatch sector. Now having an RS Megane on the drive is no bad thing and they have managed to up their RRPs with a little bit more success than Lotus. I think these days manufacturers have lost the connection between motorsport and sales. I think that link is still there to be exploited as it's one of the most effective ways to make your brand look cool and it's a damn shame that more manufacturers aren't out there in F1 or Touring cars. I guess the bean counters don't see the value in it. 

[Techyd]

Some really interesting thoughts here and as others have said price point is everything in the lifestyle purchase market.  I think its right that the Evora just isn't being considered because its several price brackets down.  I watched a youTube channel a while back, Seen Through Glass I think, it was where he was test driving an Evora as part of a hunt for his next car.  He basically loved it, but it was too cheap for him, didn't think it would give him the kudos that he was after and didn't have 'the numbers' and a V8...so kind of missed the point of the car and of Lotus, which is more down to the marketing and products of other car manufacturers rather than Lotus...I think Danny Bahar recognised this and was the one to start bringing Lotus out of the 'comprised but great' corner and in to the lifestyle market - he just didn't have the top end model to go wham with.

Partly I think is what the GT430 is starting to do for Lotus is to put them up there in that price range to be noticed.  Ready, if you ask me, for when the next car gets their in full - aka The Esprit!

Personally I hope the Elise is retained, at least in some form, however my take is that the Exige (name) is what will persist over the Elise and be the track day weapon people want, possibly with a roadster model in the line up for road use.

As for an SUV...well it surely has to be coming??  It's the perfect platform for EVs, no idea what it would look like though - the Lambo one revealed recently is just hideous!!

[Bibs]

22 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

So far I think we know the Elise is for the chop

Not so, and the plan is for there for a sub £40k Elise to be in the range ongoing.

22 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

You still can't get half the parts when you go to order them

ASO back orders are the lowest they've been for years. Apart from the odd part, the only bits on back order are ones that are made to order. Back order levels are less than 10% of what they were even a year ago.