General Election - 8 June 2017

[100th_Idiot]

@C8RKH. The right to freedom of movement for work is what is already in place in the EU. The uk has and has had the right to remove those (including EU citizens) who are not working. It is the dirty secret of successive governments that they have done absolutely nothing about it and for some it provides a convenient point to whip up ferver.

[Kimbers]

Have to agree with everyone. Tories, or should I say May, absolutely deserved what she got for running the worst campaign I have ever seen and showing her contempt for the electorate. She has to go IMHO.
Love this as well!

[molemot]

Maintaining an open border between Eire and Northern Ireland will instantly provide a back door into the UK for anyone in the EU; not just EU citizens but anyone admitted to the EU from anywhere else. Something for you Brexit types to consider. Also an interesting article from the New York Review of Books...how it all appears to others....

 

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

[molemot]

3 hours ago, 100th_Idiot said:

@C8RKH. The right to freedom of movement for work is what is already in place in the EU. The uk has and has had the right to remove those (including EU citizens) who are not working. It is the dirty secret of successive governments that they have done absolutely nothing about it and for some it provides a convenient point to whip up ferver.

Actually, it appears that you have the right of residence if you are an EU or EEA citizen and  " are a ‘qualified person’ (you’re working, studying, self-employed, self-sufficient or looking for work)" That definition is wide enough to include those not working but looking for work.

 

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate/overview

[Chillidoggy]

"Looking for work". The phrase all the Barry's scroungers use when collecting benefits?

[C8RKH]

4 hours ago, molemot said:

Maintaining an open border between Eire and Northern Ireland will instantly provide a back door into the UK for anyone in the EU; not just EU citizens but anyone admitted to the EU from anywhere else. Something for you Brexit types to consider. Also an interesting article from the New York Review of Books...how it all appears to others....

 

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

Yes, however, what we can do is move the border check to the ports and airports in NI. That is the main fundamental difference between say the Ireland:NI border and say an independent Scotland:England border - there is a big bloody body of water between NI and the rUk and that makes it much easier to control immigration to the mainland.  It still gives us a problem with immigration into NI though, granted.  And we need to ensure we have checks and balances in place with regards to benefit claiming. I still have no issue with anyone from the EU coming here and working. I expect them to be paid a fair rate for a fair days work and to pay any taxes due.  Nothing wrong in that from my point of view and as long as we have a qualifying period of working and tax paying then they should also be able to claim benefits. A bit like how UK citizens need to pay NI for 30 gazillion years before they are able to get the full state pension.

The other advantage of immigration for work, is that it proves the point to the lazy feckless bar stewards who bang on about how there is no work that actually, there bloody well is and it is just that they are too lazy and feckless to get off the backsides, get on a bike, and get a job.  Yes, i know, I'm still stuck in the 80's. Where's my Abba albums!

We might be able to remove people who cannot support themselves back to whence they came. But that is probably a very long and expensive process. So for me Brexit was about having the power to put the checks in place BEFORE they arrive. Once here. And having worked and integrated into the community. Well, at that point they are valued member of Team UK aren't they?

Brexit and the stance against freedom to benefit roam has been largely miss-understood and the supporters just labelled widely as racists who hate anyone who was not born here. That is such an insult and so wrong for many of us who supported Brexit.

[molemot]

Even when we were under attack by the PIRA and their bombs, there was no immigration control between Eire and Northern Ireland and England,Scotland and Wales. Special Branch were tasked with doing what they could...but there was no effective control. There are already immigration controls on ports and airports in NI, but none on the land border with the south. This situation is one of the things the DUP seek to preserve, they don't want to establish border controls on the land border with Eire...and there are no controls on EU citizens arriving in Eire, so they could just take a bus and go north...and the DUP aren't going to approve of border controls between NI and the rest of the UK. None of this is anything other than horribly complicated and a virtual minefield...and we won't get away with a real minefield these days!!   

[Barrykearley]

6 hours ago, ian29gte said:

"Looking for work". The phrase all the Barry's scroungers use when collecting benefits?

It only very recently that unless they can prove they have paid U.K. Tax at some point they loose the entitlement to claim. This appears to be area dependent though. 

Funny old thing is - if I look for work I can find it everywhere - paid and well paid. 

[pete]

8 hours ago, molemot said:

8 hours ago, molemot said:

Maintaining an open border between Eire and Northern Ireland will instantly provide a back door into the UK for anyone in the EU; not just EU citizens but anyone admitted to the EU from anywhere else. Something for you Brexit types to consider. Also an interesting article from the New York Review of Books...how it all appears to others....

 

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

A biased article by fintan o Toole a left wing southern irishman

 

[molemot]

Everyone, everywhere, is biased about this!!

[C8RKH]

True.  

Many are blinkered as well as biased.

Many more are blinkered and bigoted and biased!  

But many many more are blinkered and bigoted and biased and ill informed! 

Quite are few are just in denial.

[Kimbers]

And that's true for both sides. I was called a "Dirty Tory" and told I "Need a punch in my strong and stable mouth" by a friends daughter and her friend after I dared to question why she was voting Labour. I've known her since she was born.

I also politely reminded her that it was criminal damage after she used FB to suggest defacing and breaking Conservative signs.

[C8RKH]

Shocking. Ive had told her to come back when she had grown up, was mature enough to understand two sides of a story and until then to just go and fook off.

But then you are no doubt much more polite and tolerant  than me!

[ChrisJ]

 

[lotusesprit1]

Did i hear correctly 1000,000,000 gbp for 10 seats /votes! bargain I think the DUP know more about negotiations than I thought? 

[basalte]

Hello Theresa , we`re firefighters police ambulance drivers and paramedics. We came in quite useful in the past few weeks I think you`ll agree. Could you give us more staff and a pay rise ?

Theresa : There is no Magic Money Tree. Of course we can print our own money but we only do that for our mates the bankers. Its not for the likes of YOU.   

Hello Theresa, Our 10 MPs will support you - on the basics  anyway-if you give Northern Ireland 1.5 billion quid.

Hello ,Queen here,  I need 82 million for Buck House. Can you sort it or I`ll have to doss down at Windsor Sandringham or Balmoral.  

Theresa: No probs. 

 

[pete]

And your point is?

[Stubox]

Isn't that £1bn for N Ireland rather than to the DUp. 

Better deal than £ 11.2 bn pa to help secure the student vote ....

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, basalte said:

Hello Theresa , we`re firefighters police ambulance drivers and paramedics. We came in quite useful in the past few weeks I think you`ll agree. Could you give us more staff and a pay rise ?

Theresa : There is no Magic Money Tree. Of course we can print our own money but we only do that for our mates the bankers. Its not for the likes of YOU.   

Hello Theresa, Our 10 MPs will support you - on the basics  anyway-if you give Northern Ireland 1.5 billion quid.

Hello ,Queen here,  I need 82 million for Buck House. Can you sort it or I`ll have to doss down at Windsor Sandringham or Balmoral.  

Theresa: No probs. 

 

Only problem I have with this post is the sly attack on the Queen. Now, let's see how this goes shall we as I really do get pissed off when people knowingly miss-represent facts. Anyone with half a brain knows that the civil list is given by the state in return for the proceeds from the Crown Estate being retained by the State. This was the deal that was done and was very much done to ensure the majority of the benefit went to the State and therefore the people.

So can we just put this one to bed once and for all and stop the miss-information and the cheap shots at the Queen - yup, I'm a royalist and make no apologies for it.  So the Queen gets £82m (not for Buckingham House as you state - yet another crass non fact). Well, the State got an 18pc increase in returns from the Crown Estate this year which pushed this to a new high of £1.1bn.  Then add in the tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, boost to the economy that is directly down to the monarchy and events like Trooping the Colour etc through merchandising and tourism etc. To be honest, it all seems like a bloody good deal, and a damn fine rate of return, to me for the Country, the State and her citizens.  As you now hopefully know the facts ( I'm sure you knew them already but were just being a rascal to get a rise! ) you can stop propagating this crass and biased propaganda.

Thanks. I'm off to lick her carriage wheels clean. Bless her

 

 

[Chillidoggy]

Couldn't agree more.

Anyone who thinks Her Maj is not VFM should emigrate to Equatorial Guinea.

[Dan E]

I got to be honest, not into getting into the argument but I am pleased we have the royal family and funnily enough I saw Queeny Cup Cake the other day in her Roller with full Police escort by the Blackwall Tunnel, stuck in traffic, she was all dressed in blue, I was with one of the apprentices so gave her a wave in the traffic and yes she did wave back ( you know the one) it was genuinely brilliant. Was on the phone to the Missus ( hands free ?) within a minute. 

I also have a bundle of time for William and Harry they have had a tough time but are true gents. I like Harry having a fag, I know I did, but they make me feel full of that lovely Great Britain feeling. Charles not so sure! 

[basalte]

I can see how my post above can be interpreted as a personal attack on the Queen and I apologise for that because it was certainly not my intention. Her devotion to public duty is exemplary by any standards and I was moved to see her and Phil standing steadfastly in the wind and rain on the occasion of their procession down the Thames when people half their age would have buckled. (An ancestor of mine also foiled an assassination attempt on George II believe it or not-he pushed the offending firearm out of the hand of the intended regicide  !

What I intended to attack was the institution of Monarchy and I do indeed of course accept that the mechanism is not directly at the disposal of the Royal Family although there is necessarily a degree of acquiescence in any decIsion made. I also note that the renovation bill for Buck House is actually over £300 million; I do not think that the family themselves offer good value for money although they should undoubtedly be paid over the odds for their service to the Nation. It is a cliche I know but the low profile example of the Dutch, Swedish and Norwegian monarchies are more proportionate to national resources and national priorities. If the Royals are indeed such money spinners that is surely all the more reason for them to pay their way with lesser need for State allocations.. 

On an abstract moral level I do not believe the hereditary principle to be apppropriate for these times and in 1776 a hell of a lot of those pesky colonists called Americans would have agreed with me to often lethal effect . The idea of gaining public office by merit of course led to a best -seller by Thetford`s very own Tom Paine at the time.

However you will be pleased to note that  I believe that Republicanism also has its deep flaws as Americans are discovering right now ; best if the Head of State is not a politician, an ex-politician or TV reality star trying to be a politician !

I believe that the benefit to tourism  can be satsified by the opening up of the royal palaces-not even the Bolsheviks  seriously considered demolishing their Monarchy`s rich heritage that was part of the fabric of Russian life  and the Faberge Eggs remain on display to this very day.

Perhaps more pertinently, do the Royals themselves really want to carry on ? The media makes them into a sort of reality soap opera when their origins amidst ancient claims to divine status as the Head of the Established Church and their residual executive powers sit very awkwardly and (in typically British fashion), are not codified.  Prince Charles once quipped to Chris Mullin MP that when someone shouted "abolish the Monarchy " at him he had to restrain himself from shouting "I`ll just run for President instead then " back  at them. Good man ! Similarly with Prince Harry`s recent remarks that no-one really wants to do the job.

So, no, I don`t have anything personally against the Queen. It would be a mistake to personalise it. But the institution itself needs an overhaul and needs to cost a lot less.

     

Edited June 27, 2017 by basalte
typo

[oilmagnet477]

It makes me laugh when people talk about the institution of the Monarchy as if it is a bad thing and overly expensive.

So, we get rid of the Monarchy. All the buildings and trappings of state that go along with the whole thing would still exist and require cash to maintain - that isn't suddenly going to cease just because there is no Royal Family.......

And then there is the replacement as Head of State - surely the idea of a President is enough to deter anyone with a functioning brain....how much would that cost? I reckon £82m would pale into insignificance.

What about the large number of other Commonwealth Countries that our Monarch is HoS for? Still countries applying to join the CW. Can't see them wanting President Blair as HoS.

We already have 1 farcical election process in this Country - please God, let's not have another.

Wars have been fought in this country over the fall and rise of the Monarchy - the last time we had a republic, I believe that went really well.

I would personally stand up and fight to defend our Constitutional Monarchy. It is the 1 true asset in this Country that the Govt cannot sell off.

[lotusesprit1]

don't 

3 hours ago, oilmagnet477 said:

It It is the 1 true asset in this Country that the Govt cannot sell off.

Don't be sure on that pretty sure a someone is thinking of a way, something along the lines of selling all the palaces and buildings to a private company for £1 after claiming they are too expensive to maintain that is then floated on the stock market or sold to the Chinese the queen can can claim benefits to pay the rent although she will be clobbered by the spare rooms tax.

 

 

 

[Chillidoggy]

24 minutes ago, lotusesprit1 said:

don't 

Don't be sure on that pretty sure a someone is thinking of a way, something along the lines of selling all the palaces and buildings to a private company for £1 after claiming they are too expensive to maintain that is then floated on the stock market or sold to the Chinese the queen can can claim benefits to pay the rent although she will be clobbered by the spare rooms tax.

 

 

 

That'll be Corbyn, then.