General Election - 8 June 2017

[Bibs]

3 hours ago, DaveyT said:

^^yup...5-6 years ago I could buy a PC from curry's for under £400, 

a client who worked for the NHS told me that, with all their purchasing power, the same unit cost them £930

go figure...

 

Last time I asked, Lotus were paying about £1800 for a base spec laptop through their service provider...

[Barrykearley]

But is that a tuff book automotive one ?? Very different beer 

[Chillidoggy]

9 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

I've said it time and time again. We are utterly lacking in "responsibility" in today's society. Everything is about rights and entitlement - properly boils me.

 

And blame. You forgot blame. Everything that happens is someone else's fault.

[Barrykearley]

 yeah sorry forgot you are in Margate. Bet there's some ripping stories of woe and hard luck down that particular dole office......

why folks don't just crack on and work I will never know. I grew up in a top floor council flat - and have no desire to return. Although esprit ownership can try and ruin you....

[C8RKH]

According to Labour I'm rich cos I earned over £70k so I'm fair game to have my pay raped in taxes.

WTF. I've worked 45+ hours every week since leaving my comprehensive school at 18 with my A levels. That's 32 years of hard graft. For the past 24 years I've been the soul bread winner providing for my family so my wife could stay at home and bring up our kids. For many years we had cheap holidays and cars. We could not afford anything better. With the exception of child benefit ( which we put into the kids saving accounts for their futures) we've had no  benefits in all that time claimed. I needed to work so worked as hard as I could. I've sacrificed years seeing the kids grow up as I worked away. But we've made it. We have cracking kids who are polite, work hard and are embarking on their adult lives.

My reward according to those shisters Corbyn and McDonald - to be called rich and be told that I must share more of my income, much more, with people who can't be arsed to work, or expect to find a job on their doorstep, or who just expect people like me to just hand over my hard earned.

Really? What happened to aspiration? What happened to if you work hard you can get a better life?

This is exactly what is wrong with the current Labour party. I'm from a council house in one of their heartlands. I never had a steel spoon, let alone a silver one. I went to a comprehensive school. Not a grammar or private one. I never went to Uni. I should by stereotypes be the classic card carrying Labour supporter.

Well I'm not as they just do not represent me. They don't represent me. They don't represent hard working, aspirational, normal people. The champagne socialist soft left give it all away don't worry pet we'll get the hard working suckers to give you a free ride policies is not rewarding me for getting off my arse, getting on my bike, and working hard taking responsibilty to look after my family and do better. WTF would I vote for that?

If I can do it anyone can. Time to stop making excuses and saying life is not fair and time people took action and responsibilty to make THEIR lives better.

 

[Barrykearley]

I laughted physically very hard when they seemed to think £70k was a lot. 

Now I don't earn that much - could - but with the system as it is it's utterly pointless. I'd rather work enough to pay bills and spend time with the family. I've got the materialistic stuff we need and don't require any more.

now let's take the average first time buyer for a modest 3 bed house. Man, wife two kids say. For that man to be able to afford to buy one of those houses - he would need and income of at least £70k to still get that mortgage. My question to the champagne socialist dickheads - is that typical man rich??? 

They are very clearly still living in the 1970s

[Barrykearley]

@C8RKH you wait for the two seater car tax levy - that'll catch the rich blokes out 

[C8RKH]

The people in Labour espousing all this shit are university educated, quite well off thank you, silver spooned ( many of them ) and they actually look down and sneer at working class people who aspired and made good. They're going for the young vote and conning those youngsters out of a prosperous future.

Their supporters are just deluded. But heh ho.

[C8RKH]

10 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

I laughted physically very hard when they seemed to think £70k was a lot. 

Now I don't earn that much - could - but with the system as it is it's utterly pointless. I'd rather work enough to pay bills and spend time with the family. I've got the materialistic stuff we need and don't require any more.

now let's take the average first time buyer for a modest 3 bed house. Man, wife two kids say. For that man to be able to afford to buy one of those houses - he would need and income of at least £70k to still get that mortgage. My question to the champagne socialist dickheads - is that typical man rich??? 

They are very clearly still living in the 1970s

Person works hard to succeed and support their family so one can stay at home and provide stability etc. As a result of hard work gets a better job and earns £70k. 

Other couple both work hard to make ends meet. One earns £40k the other £30k. Life is hard but they're happy and making do.

Total income for the 2 households is £70k yet household 1 is going to get battered for tax as they are rich!

Go figure.

Then let's look at household 3. Don't work. Never worked formally but earn a bit of cash on the side. Full suite of benefits and dodges. 

From a cash in pocket perspective ( after tax, NI, rent/mortgage, travel to work costs etc) we find that household 3 is the most cash rich.

Again. Go figure. And once you have explain to me how or why it is fair and how it supports the make work pay agenda.

Labour is in my opinion so totally out of touch with reality it is amazing. Breaks my heart to see how they have evolved.

[Barrykearley]

^ perfect example. I see this day in day out in towns and cities. These political clowns must be going around with their eyes closed.

Everyone demonises Maggie Thatcher. But for me she provided the opportunities I have had in my lifetime. Work and you will be rewarded. Aim for the sky and it's possible. The political elite now just state it's all the rich peoples fault and there is simply no hope for the young. Not a great starting point that 

[oilmagnet477]

So far, I've come up with a plan to save the country a fortune and also to solve a little 'local' problem.

Last year, as some of you may be aware, the Mrs and I built a property in our garden so that the MIL could retain her independence but be on site. Previously in Lytham St Annes - now in Norfolk. She is 80 and has now been with us for 1 year, has multiple medical problems and I have been taking her to hospital or the local Doctors for weekly visits during this time.

She is not and never will see an improvement and as far as I can see, is going to need more and more care before eventually leaving us for the next world.

I recently involved Social Services to see if they could provide some one for an hour a day to get her up in the morning, ensure she was washed, breakfasted and medicated correctly so that my wife and I could get to work and deliver the kids to school unhindered by our neighbours' needs.

In a year, unless we have organised for someone else to come and stay (last time was my 75 yr old mother for 1 night), we haven't managed a holiday for longer than 2 days. Any chance of state run respite care is a complete non starter as all beds seem full with permenant residents (seems to miss the point to me?).

If we put my MIL into a full time care home it would cost £35-40kPA (and by all accounts increase at about 8-10%PA). As she has over £23k savings - she has to pay - typically at a rate circa 30-40% higher than the accommodation provided to the Local Authority!!

So - back to my plan.....

If I kill my MIL, our local 'issue' is resolved, I go to prison, fully at the tax payers expense - job done.

Then I got to thinking....if I topped 50-100 old people over 80, I would save the country a small fortune - that has to be worthy of a medal surely?

[C8RKH]

Lol. A bit extreme but understand your point.

The irony here is that you are asking for a little bit of help so you and your wife can continue to work and presumably pay your way and taxes.

No. If you didn't work, and didn't want to work you would get help and benefits thrown at you!

A bit extreme I guess, but said to make my point that the left don't understand that work must pay. There must be an incentive for people to aspire to something better.

If someone does not aspire and want to work, then the last thing we should do is throw benefits at them! Let them rot.

We must help those who do work and strive in low paid jobs. We need to take them fully out of the tax system. We need to stop the excuses and increase the minimum wage by 50% to at least £10 per hour. Fook the business owners, they can afford it. I agree we need to rebalance but the workshy feckless buggers deserve nothing and should not get anything out of it. Focus on those that work hard and aspire, and who need society's support due to real medical ( physical or mental ) needs. That's how we create a better, fairer society. We need people with aspiration as the workers in the highest tax bracket contribute the most - as they should - already. Remove the barriers at let those with aspirations rise to the top. But don't then punish them for doing it!

[Kimbers]

14 hours ago, pete said:

There was a time when the father supported  the family or is that not the modern way

Not really sure why you say this Pete? She is nearly 27 and lived in her own place since she was 18, first with friends then other halves. She was in a stable relationship when she got pregnant only for the "other party" to up and leave and refuse to pay a penny (he even left his job to avoid paying anything) Turned out to be a real scuzz bucket. She was the vulnerable sort of person who needed help and got it.

She has worked since she was 16 so she had paid a lot of NI and taxes and as soon as she was able she has got a job and is contributing again, despite the fact they take more off her than she earns. That is proper work ethic! 

Of course Dad and mom help out when she needs it but my current work circumstances mean I work 2 jobs just to pay all my bills here so try and help out in other ways like babysitting so she doesn't have to pay childcare etc.

 

[Kimbers]

39 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

We must help those who do work and strive in low paid jobs. We need to take them fully out of the tax system. We need to stop the excuses and increase the minimum wage by 50% to at least £10 per hour. Fook the business owners, they can afford it. I agree we need to rebalance but the workshy feckless buggers deserve nothing and should not get anything out of it. Focus on those that work hard and aspire, and who need society's support due to real medical ( physical or mental ) needs. That's how we create a better, fairer society. We need people with aspiration as the workers in the highest tax bracket contribute the most - as they should - already. Remove the barriers at let those with aspirations rise to the top. But don't then punish them for doing it!

My son with Aspergers is 19 (20 yesterday) and works at Burger King. He loves it. The job suits him and he likes the people he works with and they (mostly apart from one bully of a manager) like him. He works hard, is conscientious, smart and polite to everyone. He is their only full time employee and the top manager has told him that when he is working their "positive feedback online" goes up 50%. He is a valued member of the team and earns................£5.60 an hour. After deductions (which he shouldn't get but after 3 months they still haven't sorted his emergency tax), he gets £330 for 2 weeks work.

But he still gets up early for an early, gets home at midnight on a late with no extra monies for unsociable hours. Bank Holiday he did 2 till 23:00 finished at 23:30 and still only earnt £5.60 an hour. If he had been anywhere else he would have got at least time and a quarter for Bank Holday and an extra quarter after 22:00 for unsociable hours. 

He still turns up and works every day and except on days when bully manager shouts at him he comes home saying he had a great day with a smile on his face. 

Alternatively, in 3 months, they have taken on and lost at least 10 other teenagers who couldn't cut the mustard, turned up late etc etc.

My point is that eh is a valued member and only full time member. Do they value him? They say they do but at £5.60 with no bonus's do they really?

[Chillidoggy]

35 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

Not really sure why you say this Pete?

 

Pete's ancient, and that's how it used to be in the olden days.

[Barrykearley]

2 hours ago, oilmagnet477 said:

back to my plan.....

If I kill my MIL, our local 'issue' is resolved, I go to prison, fully at the tax payers expense - job done.

Then I got to thinking....if I topped 50-100 old people over 80, I would save the country a small fortune - that has to be worthy of a medal surely?

Ahh Dr Shipman you have a good plan

[oilmagnet477]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Fook the business owners, they can afford it. I agree we need to rebalance but the workshy feckless buggers deserve nothing and should not get anything out of it. Focus on those that work hard and aspire, and who need society's support due to real medical ( physical or mental ) needs. That's how we create a better, fairer society. We need people with aspiration as the workers in the highest tax bracket contribute the most - as they should - already. Remove the barriers at let those with aspirations rise to the top. But don't then punish them for doing it!

Some massive generalisations there mate! This country only exists economically because of the Private Sector. I have recently taken a job helping out my best mate's Mrs who, after working in a 'Horse and Garden Supplies' type shop for 6 years and like me is early 50s, has decided to take on the shop as the previous owner retired after 49 years. I'm on minimum wage and doing about 20 hours a week - I have never worked so bloody hard in my life but I'm really enjoying it and really hope that we can make it work. She is doing about 75 hours a week, will be lucky to draw much more than minimum wage after paying rent/rates/electric etc etc. If minimum wage went up to £10/hour - I'd be out of a job and the shop would most likely close.

I fully agree that there are many many large firms out there totally taking the piss out of UK Plc and this needs to be resolved. The sooner we leave the EU, the more likelihood there is that something can be done.

If anyone says "Oh but teachers and Doctors pay tax" Forget it! Their wages are still paid for by the taxes of those that don't take a wage from the Govt.

Simple fact is that there are no simple answers to the many and varied problems that have been identified (or not?) in this discussion. Politicians of any colour piffle around the edges and anyone seeking significant reform is met with massive resistance and generally booted out of power. It will never change irrespective of who lives at number 10.

Given that the majority spoke on June 23rd last year and WE ARE LEAVING THE EU BECAUSE OF THAT - The simple question for June 8th is:

Who do you want in charge of the exit negotiations - Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn

All the rest of the arguments will continue unresolved for decades irrespective of who gets in power.

[C8RKH]

47 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

Pete's ancient, and that's how it used to be in the Golden days.

FTFY.

@Kimbers no, of course the Corporation does not value him. The local shift manager and restaurant manager does, that is obvious re the feedback which is always nice, whether you earn £5 or £50 per hour, to get.It helps you feel like you are doing something good.  but to the faceless Accountants in the Corporation your son is just a bean to be sprouted and exploited. Just like my daughter is for BA. They don't value her - she had to fund herself through 4 months of training, unpaid, whilst staying at a hotel she had to pay for near heathrow just to get a job that pays her a base of £7.50 an hour!  

Companies are driven by greed obsessed CEO and CFO's who demand strong quarterly growth and double digit annual growth. They don't give a shit, by and large, how they get there and how many employee's lives their "corporate systems" destroy in the process. The reality is the world is run by accountants and accountants are the least compassionate people on the planet as when they see a payroll, the don't see people - families - hope and aspiration - they see a cost that needs to be minimised, squeezed, exploited and gained.  That is the true reality of most modern companies. There are notable exceptions. I work for a French company that operates all over the world and it is genuinely different. I've been here a year and my god what a difference. I still work 45, 50, 60 sometimes 70+ hours a week, but I do so knowing that i am valued and the company does try to do the right thing by me. I'm bloody lucky and I know it.

This is where Corbyn and MacDonald have got it all wrong.  They are targeting the higher earning individuals (not the highest earning) - most of whom are PAYE, so they have no choice NOT to pay tax as it is deducted every month at source. There are no "get rich quick schemes" or "wealth schemes" for us to hide our earnings in. All is transparent. But they go for us because we are an easy and soft target. Theirs is the politics of division. Of getting those less well off to turn and fight against those that are a bit better off.  Let's face it, how many households with a total income of £70k today feel "rich"? Truly rich?  Many are still struggling to pay the bills and increasingly footing the bill to educate their children through Uni etc to stop them racking up huge debts. Then there is helping your kids with rent and housing where and when you can. All of these things are done to help our kids and ultimately they benefit the state too. But we are a soft target because someone like John McDonald, the nastiest little man in UK politics in my opinion, thinks we are rich. Ha. Don't make me laugh.

I've done the two jobs thing to make ends meet too @Kimbers. It's bloody tough. So I am not having a go at you and your kids. I understand it and see how hard it is. But then therein also lies the difference in some of our generation to the younger ones. We will get of our arses and get two jobs if we need to. We will juggle and find a way to make it work. Too many of our generation and our childrens generation I am sorry to say have not inherited the pre and post war work ethic. They want something for nothing. Look at the number who are youtube wannabe's - they want to make a million by doing shit all. Anything for the easy life. It sickens me. But not as much as the politicians who want to wrap up the work shy feckless bar stewards in cotton wool sicken me.

@oilmagnet477 when I say fook the bosses, I thought it was obvious I was talking about the large corporate entiities - apologies for not making that clearer. However, don't get me started on the small business who "voluntarily" fold and change their identifies to avoid debts whilst the company owners wife still drives the Porsche and the kids still go to Public School whilst the debtors go out of business.  Like with everything, there are extremes on all sides.

And as for leading Brexit negotiations - with May it will be a battle. With Corbyn it would be a total surrender. the man has no real backbone in my opinion. He has a compassionate socialist soul, I do believe that. But he has not got the strength of character to truly fight for us in my opinion. It would be a disaster.

If only everyone else was not as perfect, rational and sane as me. 

[ChrisJ]

 

 

[MPx]

Meanwhile back at the election.  Is it just me or do others think that the Lib Dems have got a good stab at 48% of the population who have never accepted the vote and want to remain?  On a constituency basis (not one man one vote) the Lib dems could clean up loads of seats on that ticket - not enough to win of course, but enough to put a big dent in that forecast 100 seat majority for the Tories.  And then we'd have that whining anti-democrat Fallon as a proper disrupting influence throughout the Brexit process.   Please NO!   Just sayin...

[Barrykearley]

He's far more likely to steal labour voters though - Tory voters are known for loyalty - the Labour Party is falling apart and has a clown for a leader.

just in case the Russians hack the whole thing up - I'm off down the bookies to stick some cash on labour winning

[C8RKH]

I actually think the Russians will and would prefer the Tory Government to a Labour one. After all, they need to protect the value of their personal investments in Kensington, Chelsea, Westminster, Belgravia and Fitzrovia and their piles in Buckinghamshire, Surrey, Sussex etc.

[Chillidoggy]

Corbyn is promising to reduce school class sizes when he wins the election.

[march]

At the moment we need a strong government, almost like a war government to get the best out of any negotiations with the EU. Theresa May has shown herself to be the only political party leader to show any true leadership qualities, the rest are just wet blankets - and we need a strong PM and a strong Houses of Parliament at the moment. Falling into Project Management speak (sorry) the houses of parliament are the stake holders of a project (the project manager is answerable to the stake holders) with the PM as the Project Manager. If you have a bunch of stake holders tearing themselves apart rather than coming together and concentrating on delivering a successful project the Project Manager, however good, is doomed to failure - and delivering the BREXIT project will be the main focus of the government for the next few years. Unfortunately this means (to me at least) that a strong mandate for Theresa May can only be a good thing in this case. If the politicians had pulled together, following the will of the people, once the BREXIT vote had been decided this approach would not be needed, and the opposition could fight the corner on domestic matters (NHS, etc) and hold the PM to account - unfortunately they don't seem to be able to see the beyond the end of their noses and internal scheming.

Even the EU and currency markets think a strong mandate for Theresa May will lead to a reasonable middle road approach to BREXIT.

Now once the project has been delivered the Project Manager is in effect redundant and in this case Theresa May may or may not be the best person to take the country forward once the focus returns to domestic matters (think of Churchill post WW2), well fortunately being a democratic country we can do something about that.

Based upon this (and I am not a die hard Conservative) I will be hoping the Conservatives do very well (can't believe I am saying this) and the opposition do some real naval gazing over the next couple of years and come back stronger and better post BREXIT to ensure parliament actually works how it should and they truly hold the government of the day to account on such matters as the NHS, low pay etc..

Possibly an over simplification, just my two penn'orth worth .

[C8RKH]

3 hours ago, ian29gte said:

Corbyn is promising to reduce school class sizes when he wins the election.

He's just recycling old policies and old news. This from 2000. They never achieved it after 12 years in power before, why should we believe them now?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/nov/02/education.schools

 

Bravo. Well said above @march. A good point, well laid out with no soundbites or jingoistic rhetoric.  Like that approach a lot.