Delco-Moraine ABS Deletion

[swindon_alan]

PS the V8 Kelsey-Hayes ABS system really is very good by the way. Unlike the Delco-Moraine also ran it does actually work when you need it. I've only noticed it cutting in on slippery surfaces but unfortunately it doesn't recognise imminent road signs...

If, like any modern ABS equipped car, it can give you even a few yards additional stopping distance then it has to be worthwhile. My good lady's Mokka 4x4 has continuously surprised me by helping out in the nastiness of winter, including all that snow and ice.

Oh and if it was such a shite idea, why did Lotus fit it as standard equipment before it was made compulsory.  Granted, the DM set up was bollocks but they learnt from that and moved onto the KH. Fitted to thousands of Vectras etc. incidentally. 

[Barrykearley]

22 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

Yer, you don't need it on a donkey four pot but it's essential equipment for a blisteringly fast V8...

Doesnt work when going backwards so I’ve heard

[swindon_alan]

I've never tried that! Unless you mean gentleman on gentleman action and then I bow to you superior knowledge and experience... 

[Giniw]

55 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

the DM set up was bollocks but they learnt from that

I've just read in the Esprit Official Story book that actually the DM was NLA even at the time and that they had to source another system in a hurry.

[Giniw]

56 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

Fitted to thousands of Vectras etc. incidentally.

Hang on, do you mean the later and better system is easy to source and cheap?! Oo

[Barrykearley]

@Giniw don’t be fooled. Folks are ripping out the KH system and converting to servo as well.

yes it is a better system - but stopping times are less and brake pedal feel better with a traditional servo setup.

[swindon_alan]

8 hours ago, Giniw said:

Hang on, do you mean the later and better system is easy to source and cheap?! Oo

Yer.

'96/'97 KH (two channel)

''98 on KH (three channel)

The one on my spares shelf cost £14.50

[Bibs]

10 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

If, like any modern ABS equipped car, it can give you even a few yards additional stopping distance then it has to be worthwhile

ABS usually extends your braking distance, but retains your ability to steer. When it was first adopted, insurance on ABS equipped cars was higher as they were crashing more due to the extended stopping distances that no-one was used to, or expecting. 

[swindon_alan]

"The first fully electronic anti lock system was developed in the late 1960s for the Concorde aircraft"

Didn't know that.

[Vanya]

On 19/06/2018 at 00:10, swindon_alan said:

PS the V8 Kelsey-Hayes ABS system really is very good by the way.

I second this. Great brake feel from this system, feels like a regular modern servo unit. Only thing lacking on the V8 is larger callipers front and rear, necessary to rein in all that weight when travelling at high speed (which is par for the course in a V8....).

[Chillidoggy]

Passed MOT today.

I discussed with the MOT tester the issue of ABS removal, which he wasn't aware of. He looked it up in the tester's manual to check, before passing it fit for purpose. So anyone in doubt about removing the Delco system, it's fine for MOT purposes as long as the major ABS system components are removed ie. pump, accumulator, and ECU. He said the ABS sensors and reluctor rings don't have to be removed as they could be deemed part of a traction control system, although I did remove them on my car because I wanted to sell them on.

[swindon_alan]

 

[Chillidoggy]

Given the recent successful conversion for rizla, eight cars have been converted so far, with Christine being the ninth. The remaining two bracket sets are allocated, none remain.

I have given a lot of thought to LHD, however afternoon overcoming one or two potential issues, I find that unless the brake pedal can be easily removed and replaced, the process is likely to take quite a bit longer. But it is certainly possible to do.

I have received one expression of interest for a LHD, and one for RHD. This is not enough for a production run, so there won’t be any more available for now. If you are interested, message me here on TLF.

 

[rizla603104]

For those who are experiencing anything untoward, or in fact for those who hate the feel of braking on a Delco Moraine system, this is the conversion for you. I've now driven a couple of hundred miles and, as promised, it has transformed my S4 experience. At best the DM system had no particular feeling at worst it was a death trap it progressed over a number of years - however, the symptoms became worse and worse. I highly recommend you seriously consider acquiring this excellent answer to an issue that has been raised by many and around for years. It is bloody awesome. I can trust my car to do exactly what it needs to - when it needs to, including late braking which was proved to me today when I went out with Charlie who also has an S4. I managed to outbrake him on each corner because of the confidence and feel I now have with this setup. The system has been designed and produced to a quality that far outweighs the original kit. The stopping power is amazing. Cannot endorse this system enough. Actually have a smile back on my face driving the purple nasty.

[Barrykearley]

It’s brilliant isn’t it 👍

well done to @Chillidoggy for his tenacity in dealing with a problem and coming up with an elegant solution.

It absolutely transformed my S4s 

[rizla603104]

here here!

[Chillidoggy]

I don't usually blow my own trumpet, however It's encouraging to hear that everyone who has converted their system is very pleased with the result.

It makes me wonder whether there could be some Esprit owners who don't drive their cars much because the Delco system is so dreadful.

[rizla603104]

It's a good trick if you can do it! 🙂

I honestly think that some won't realise how awful the system is - as you get used to dealing with it - like early braking and the expectation that no two braking experiences are the same. I also agree that there are many Esprits not driven often.

[Chillidoggy]

I will soon be able to supply a LHD version, if you are interested please email me at espritservobrake01@yahoo.com.

Do not post any requests on this group thread as I will lose track of it!

Please note that this will only be for Europe at the moment.

[Chillidoggy]

Any US members here- I'd like to see some photos of a Delco-equipped Federal car (SE/S4/S42/GT3). Specifically, shots of the brake master cylinder and surrounding areas so I can see whether there is any likely to be any obstructions to a LHD conversion. Any help would be appreciated.

[ramjet]

On 09/07/2018 at 18:27, rizla603104 said:

It's a good trick if you can do it! 🙂

I honestly think that some won't realise how awful the system is - as you get used to dealing with it - like early braking and the expectation that no two braking experiences are the same. I also agree that there are many Esprits not driven often.

See, this is where this is odd. I drive a Holden Rodeo as my daily. Vacuum assisted brakes. My wife has her Honda Accord. Brakes are good on that also.

My S4. I have never noticed a change in brake reaction from one use to the next. I have not had to get used to braking earlier. I have never overshot a corner and have been able to scare the pants off quite a few passengers with the way the car could accelerate, handle and brake.

If I was over there in the UK, I would love to come in one of the converted cars as a comparison. But alas, I am way over here.

Has anyone quantified whether the brakes now pull the car up sooner or is it just the way they feel now?

[Barrykearley]

I’ve got a presently unconverted s4 and a converted S4s

the converted car stops noticeably shorter and the peddle feel isn’t like treading on a brick.

[ramjet]

Fair enough then. If I was keeping the car, I would look into sourcing the parts over here. Except for the bracket and pushrod. I'm not, so the car will be sold as is and I will point the new owner to TLF.  

[Chillidoggy]

Michael, there is no quantifiable or empirical evidence that I’m aware of. Only the comments of those who are relieved and very happy once the Delco has been removed and a conversion has been carried out, That latter also applies to those who have previously changed their Delco system to vacuum servo, not just to those who have fitted the system I developed.

[Barrykearley]

Empirical you say - 100% of the delco based cars I have had - crap. Done.