anyone tried vw passat/audi a6 calipers on the rear of their pre 85 cars?

[silverfrost]

George,  Lighter and cheaper than stock parts,  cant get any better 

[peteyg]

A few pics to add to Neil's post. They bolt straight on. As Neil said we may need to chamfer a couple of edges to stop them fouling the brackets but only by a very small amount. Rerouting the right hand handbrake cable was the only real irritation - solved by drilling a hole through the body a little further back than the original exit point. There's no way whatsoever it could be put in place using the original exit point. This does create quite a bit of slack as the cable it too long but you can lose it in the cavity next to the fuel tank and the cable still slides happily. Left-hand cable just needs to go over the top of the gearbox as opposed to round the back of it. We will probably need to add a P clip to hold in place. Can't believe the weight difference @GTK, you'll be a happy boy if you go down this route!

PS Ignore the 'plumbing'. That will be put right in due course!!

[eeyoreish]

Would an S3 be identical to this in terms of installation? Asking for my '84 Turbo.

Sorry I don't know how that compares to an S2...

[GTK]

16 hours ago, eeyoreish said:

Would an S3 be identical to this ...

Sorry I don't know how that compares to an S2...

Not as good 

Think someone said they're the same calipers/cradles, but don't take my word for it.

Next question is how do the VW calipers effect braking. Someone at the TLF crimbo party was saying that Lotus brakes have a particular setup that mean they're progressive, part of the reason they can feel soft to some at first impressions.

[910Esprit]

1 hour ago, GTK said:

Think someone said they're the same calipers/cradles, but don't take my word for it.

Thats what I thought, but PNM seems to have a significant price difference between the S2 and later models?   

NB - I would not expect any 'softness' in feel on the earlier cars (I dont know about ABS models).   As long as new calipers have a similar size piston, there should be no difference in brake feel 

 

[peteyg]

On 14/01/2019 at 18:39, eeyoreish said:

Would an S3 be identical to this in terms of installation? Asking for my '84 Turbo.

Sorry I don't know how that compares to an S2...

I'd have thought so @eeyoreish if you still have the inboard discs. Where are the original handbrake cables routed? If they're clamps to the fboot floor abouve the silencer then yes you have the same setup and will need to reroute the right hand cable.

Pete

[eeyoreish]

Thanks Pete. If the boot floor was in the car I'd have more of a clue!

I'll study it when I'm next in the garage and see if I can suss it out. I definitely have inboard brakes though.

[peteyg]

Final update. We have brakes!!!!

Neil came round yesterday and we fitted the new calipers. I've attached photos of where a tiny modification was required to stop the calipers fouling the mounting brackets. Both calipers required a small amount of metal to be removed top and bottom. I used a file to chamfer the edges and they now slide  easily. Handbrake works too! Other than that we can officially say they pretty much bolt straight on!

[silverfrost]

The Vosprung duch technic parts bin triumphs again,  i have fitted so audi parts to my esprit,    i think the big man Mr Chapman would be proud of all our parts bin raiding   

[eeyoreish]

Anyone got an old Passat? Just asking for a friend...😉

[gvy]

I think you can buy them anyware online from different suppliers

Am I right?

fe;

https://www.mister-auto.be/fl/remklauw/bolk-bol-e111322_g78_a999BOL-E111322.html?_t=default

and

https://www.mister-auto.be/fl/remklauw/bolk-bol-e111323_g78_a999BOL-E111323.html?_t=default

Edited January 21, 2019 by gvy

[Mark Wainwright]

On 21/01/2019 at 14:54, gvy said:

I think you can buy them anyware online from different suppliers

Am I right?

fe;

https://www.mister-auto.be/fl/remklauw/bolk-bol-e111322_g78_a999BOL-E111322.html?_t=default

and

https://www.mister-auto.be/fl/remklauw/bolk-bol-e111323_g78_a999BOL-E111323.html?_t=default

or ebay search - "audi a6 calipers rear 01 04"

[Mark Wainwright]

 

On 14/01/2019 at 18:04, peteyg said:

PS Ignore the 'plumbing'. That will be put right in due course!!"

that is special. 

[naasaa]

Is there any advantages brake wise with these?

[silverfrost]

Hi Lars,   Not sure on the braking side,  Hopefully some folks who purchase the new ones can maybe measure the diameter of the calliper piston when they go to fit them and compare with the lotus ones.

I would presume they will improve it though,  as the components are fairly modern so the design and build quality should be improved, plus they are made for more heavy car,  alloy also, so more light weight which is an added bonus    Hopefully one of the folks will do a road test review 

[Gis]

On 15/01/2019 at 02:39, eeyoreish said:

Would an S3 be identical to this in terms of installation? Asking for my '84 Turbo.

Sorry I don't know how that compares to an S2...

@eeyoreish apologies for being a bit late here. There is a thread with these rear calipers. The PNM set (possibly identical to the Passat type) works on a 84 turbo. Re-routing of handbrake cables is also required though. Plus a heatshield for the one that comes close to the turbo.

 

 

[silverfrost]

Plus they look 100 times better than the old ones,  Even little alloy fins to disipate heat, so will improve brake fade imo 

[peteyg]

We'll be heading for an MOT shortly so will be able to get readings on the braking power. I doubt there would be any significant difference in braking force as we've not changed anything else in the system. A piston is a piston and unless there is any improvement in the fluid pressure via more servo assistance or some such thing there's not going to be much difference. It's not like we've swapped to 4 pot calipers. Also the rears don't do much braking anyway. The weight saving however is significant!

Pete

[Steve4012]

Have you found the handbrake to be any better? 

[naasaa]

4 hours ago, peteyg said:

We'll be heading for an MOT shortly so will be able to get readings on the braking power. I doubt there would be any significant difference in braking force as we've not changed anything else in the system. A piston is a piston and unless there is any improvement in the fluid pressure via more servo assistance or some such thing there's not going to be much difference. It's not like we've swapped to 4 pot calipers. Also the rears don't do much braking anyway. The weight saving however is significant!

Pete

Well, the piston diameter, area, is what makes the difference in brake force. 

A larger diameter will result in a higher clamping force. 

[drdoom]

9 hours ago, peteyg said:

We'll be heading for an MOT shortly so will be able to get readings on the braking power. I doubt there would be any significant difference in braking force as we've not changed anything else in the system. A piston is a piston and unless there is any improvement in the fluid pressure via more servo assistance or some such thing there's not going to be much difference. It's not like we've swapped to 4 pot calipers. Also the rears don't do much braking anyway. The weight saving however is significant!

Pete

I found the site ( link attached ) just recently and found the information on Lotus braking quite persuasive. Worth a read.

https://www.boefab.com/blogs/tech/stopping-a-lotus-on-a-dime-every-time

[naasaa]

5 hours ago, drdoom said:

I found the site ( link attached ) just recently and found the information on Lotus braking quite persuasive. Worth a read.

https://www.boefab.com/blogs/tech/stopping-a-lotus-on-a-dime-every-time

Great link.

Now I’m even more keen to know if these Passat calipers have larger piston than the original?

[Nelly]

We didn't measure them before we put them on the car, but given they fit onto the existing bracket I would be very surprised if they had larger pistons.

With the limited testing we have done so far, the braking didn't feel significantly better.  Will let you know once the car has an MOT.

[naasaa]

These calipers looks interesting, and is available with different piston size.

Most likely larger than the Passat type.

Though not sure of the rear disc diameter. And do find the 90 degree mounting holes a bit akward!

 

  https://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList?subname=Combination P-Brake

 

[silverfrost]

They look nice Lars,  But will require a new bracket, price wise inc the machine work and the actual purchse of the callipers would soon sky rocket,   The nice thing about the passat ones, is cost, bonus with the added weight saving, and the fact that they will always be easily and cheaply sourced, new or used. 

When i designed the set up for my v8 conversion on the s3, moving the callipers outboard due to loosing the lotus gearbox, i wanted an off the shelf high volume produced part to ensure it will always be cheap to source,  the aircraft grade brackets i designed did not end up cheap though lol. 

Reading the article earlier in a previous post about the brake bias valve,  I have always wanted to fit one of these to try one out, as i think if you took the time on a track or private road to set one up, i think the rewards would be fantastic from what i have seen written in other publications.

Drama would be where to put it on the Esprit.