Brexit

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

She has been "told" that her deal will ONLY be acceptable if she steps down

What has that got to do with integrity? Immediately after the referendum, those same MPs crowned her as their leader to take them through to deliver Brexit. They didn't say "You do all the hard work to at least ensure we're out, then one of us will take over". She should tell them to sod off. I don't think there's been any integrity shown on any side in Westminster since Cameron fell for his Euro-sceptics dare of putting the referendum in his manifesto.

Anyway, we still don't know what's happening!

[C8RKH]

41 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

What has that got to do with integrity? Immediately after the referendum, those same MPs crowned her as their leader to take them through to deliver Brexit. They didn't say "You do all the hard work to at least ensure we're out, then one of us will take over". She should tell them to sod off. I don't think there's been any integrity shown on any side in Westminster since Cameron fell for his Euro-sceptics dare of putting the referendum in his manifesto.

Anyway, we still don't know what's happening!

Hang on, aren't you confusing HER INTEGRITY to do the right thing to get what she believes (whether anyone else believes or not is not the issue here) is right for the UK done, with that of the those same MPs who crowned her?  And Cameron and integrity in the same sentence. Blimey that's like putting Blair and saint in the same sentence, or Balls and intelligent, or Gove and trustworthy, or Milliband and Grommit....

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Let's just agree to refrain from using the "i" word when it comes to politicians!

[scotty435]

20 hours ago, PAR said:

OK, i promise I won’t post anymore.

You have as much right to post your thoughts be it data or your personal views of the whole process as anyone else in the forum, if you think you are being bullied into submission, I don’t think that was the intention, well I hope not.

[PaulCP]

Looks as though we are facing a GE.

If this is the case the first thing that should happen is that every current MP should be fired by their constituents & replaced since they have demonstrated complete ineptitude during the Brexit process. Corbyn will get his wish (the GE) but should not be allowed to be around to win any GE since his approach all along has been just to try to kybosh any Tory deal, because that’s what he does best, react against the establishment of the day. (With SNP not far behind)

We won’t even go down the thought process of whether his past should allow him to stand for Parliament let alone PM

[Dan E]

and that has been my biggest fear in all of this, Corbyn in power. 

[Neal H]

GE will probably result in no overall majority, with a Corbyn led left-wing coalition of Labour, SNP and a few odd Lib-Dems and Greens.

The irony is this will be far more detrimental to the UK economy than a no-deal Brexit would have been!

Thanks idiot Tory MP's.

[Barrykearley]

Seems you may be overlooking a “brexit Party” option. This would completely muller both Tory and Labour 

[Dan E]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Seems you may be overlooking a “brexit Party” option. This would completely muller both Tory and Labour 

And then chap where would we be. I am genuinely worried about Corbyn and I promise you this is not going to be good for you or me. 

[JG220]

3 hours ago, PaulCP said:

Looks as though we are facing a GE.

If this is the case the first thing that should happen is that every current MP should be fired by their constituents & replaced since they have demonstrated complete ineptitude during the Brexit process. Corbyn will get his wish (the GE) but should not be allowed to be around to win any GE since his approach all along has been just to try to kybosh any Tory deal, because that’s what he does best, react against the establishment of the day. (With SNP not far behind)

We won’t even go down the thought process of whether his past should allow him to stand for Parliament let alone PM

Really though, May failed. That then made Parliament look to fail, when there could be no consensus, since no consensus had been sought. 

It's all May's and her party's fault. And there is a question over whether conservatives should ever be trusted again. On the other hand a Corbyn administration is a very scary prospect. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by JG220

[Colin P]

It is not right to Simply blame May because she couldn’t secure a deal despite all the other deals being suggested also were voted against. She couldn’t deliver the impossible.

She pushed her preference, everyone else pushed theirs. No one willing to compromise and Corbyn being a complete twat throughout.

The whole bloody lot of them are equally at fault, for not being prepared to put aside own self interest and compromise to find the least disagreeable result for the country.

Frankly whatever happened 2/3rds of the population won’t be happy with the result. So broadly 3 camps. Hard Brexit. Softer Brexit and Remain, you’ll therefore never get complete consensus. 

Regardless, if we end up with Corbyn we’re all screwed and I agree with @Dan E this would the the absolute worst result. 

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, Dan E said:

And then chap where would we be. I am genuinely worried about Corbyn and I promise you this is not going to be good for you or me. 

He’s unelectable - he is a massive hypocrite and everyone knows this. There will be a party come from the ashes which will promise a hard brexit. That I would suspect would absolutely collapse the vote count for the major parties.

back to basics - we voted leave - deal was never on offer and let’s jot forget by voting this way we were promised higher interest rates, a huge recession, mass unemployment and plagues of locusts.

even if comrade Corbyn got in - frankly it’ll be just fine. I’ll sit back and restructure my life and business to suit

[Dan E]

7 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

 

even if comrade Corbyn got in - frankly it’ll be just fine. I’ll sit back and restructure my life and business to suit

How much of your electrical work is in Europe mine is 50%

[Colin P]

17 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

back to basics - we voted leave - deal was never on offer

Part of the problem. It was leave or stay. Stay was defined, leave wasn’t, so no-one really knew what the result would be if voting leave. Hard or soft? Made it very difficult for people in the middle (like myself) to decide which way to vote.

 

[Barrykearley]

The government propaganda leaflet delivered to every household in the uk was pretty clear on the issue.

what we currently have is hundreds of MPs spinning this scenario to meet their own ends. They are not considering the answer to the clear question based on that brochure which pleaded with us to vote remain.

 

19 minutes ago, Dan E said:

How much of your electrical work is in Europe mine is 50%

100% of it

[Steve V8]

1 hour ago, Dan E said:

How much of your electrical work is in Europe mine is 50%

Swanning off to Amsterdam for the weekend isn't electrical work😉.

[CHANGES]

10 hours ago, Colin P said:

Part of the problem. It was leave or stay. Stay was defined, leave wasn’t, so no-one really knew what the result would be if voting leave. Hard or soft? Made it very difficult for people in the middle (like myself) to decide which way to vote.

 

Sorry the definition of leave is 

leave

1. 1.

   go away from.

   synonyms:

   depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from, take one's leave of, pull out of, quit, be gone from, decamp from, disappear from, abandon, vacate, absent oneself from, evacuate; More       When i voted leave, That is what i voted for..   So to say no one knew what the result would be by voting leave is wrong.   Saying the outcome of leave was an unknown would  have been more apt.  But most people who voted leave were very passionate about what they were voting for ,' getting out from under the EU rule' .  It would be correct to say the outcome would require transition period into a new beginning,  but more of the same EU degradation  in to a federal state of Europe  was not democratic or acceptable.  So we voted out REGARDLESS..  It is very easy to blame May and the Government for the way it has all been handled,  but i find it very strange that no one looks to blame the EU negotiators for their part in this mess.   I did not see them trying to negotiate at all ....  They came up with a deal to suit them and that was it.. Where this goverment went wrong is to keep pushing the EU deal agenda as its own.. When it was not excepted by parliament that should have been the end of that one ..  As the EU said this is the only deal on the table, then its a no brainer,,  NO DEAL...    If the EU is not prepared to negotiate then why should we..  The outcome of  all this political arguing has achieved nothing but to undermine the British goverment, politics and reputation,  an outcome The EU must be so pleased about..  It has been very evident from day one of the leave vote that a very influential sector of the UK society wanted to stay in the EU because it suited then..  They have used this influence and position to do everything possible to undermine the result, discredit it , in an attempt to try and overturn by what ever means possible.  Our democratic system is what is stopping them as we voted out..  Fortunately their are some in parliament who recognise they are there to serve the people not their own agenda , the result is the in fighting political  mess we have..  Unless the EU come up with a better deal that parliament can except, then I feel we have no other option than to leave with no deal.  Any other deal we put forward the EU instantly rejects saying they have the one deal only .   As I see it we need to and should have many months ago, said to the EU , your deal is not acceptable to us , come up with something more compliant or we could end up with a No Deal. .....    All a bit late now ...

[Colin P]

7 minutes ago, CHANGES said:

Sorry the definition of leave is 

leave

1. 1.

   go away from.

   synonyms:

   depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from, take one's leave of, pull out of, quit, be gone from, decamp from, disappear from, abandon, vacate, absent oneself from, evacuate; More       When i voted leave, That is what i voted for..   So to say no one knew what the result would be by voting leave is wrong.   Saying the outcome of leave was an unknown would  have been more apt.  But most people who voted leave were very passionate about what they were voting for ,' getting out from under the EU rule' .  It would be correct to say the outcome would require transition period into a new beginning,  but more of the same EU degradation  in to a federal state of Europe  was not democratic or acceptable.  So we voted out REGARDLESS..

I am aware of the dictionary definition of leave, accept that unknown may be more apt than undefined. You have described the 2 extremes on here, and I think made my point that there is a large proportion who had to choose between 2 extremes. So will have gone one way or another, or not voted as each were equally distasteful. 

So please don’t assume that every leave voter is at the extreme end. If everyone was in one of the extreme camps then we’d have made a decision. Because there are broadly 3 camps we can’t get to 50%+ agreement.

Europe don’t want us to leave, so they were never going to make it easy. 

[Barrykearley]

We triggered article 50 - and in uk law the end date that was passed by our law makers was 29/03/19.

now its been extended - as our laws are overruled by the EU. 

 

THAT single fact is enough for me to vote leave no matter what

[CHANGES]

19 minutes ago, Colin P said:

So please don’t assume that every leave voter is at the extreme end. If everyone was in one of the extreme camps then we’d have made a decision. Because there are broadly 3 camps we can’t get to 50%+ agreement.

Never did assume that,  But if you voted leave then you would be under no misapprehension you were voting to leave and visa versa , how strong your feeling are on the matter is irrelevant, you vote one way or the other ....    Not sure I understand what the third camp is you refer to ,,  Stay... Leave.... ???? 

 

[oilmagnet477]

How to define 'Leave' 😋

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hloWmE_3d2I

[CHANGES]

19 minutes ago, Colin P said:

Europe don’t want us to leave, so they were never going to make it easy. 

Well maybe they should have considered how public opinion was, then made it more attractive or us to stay..   But I suppose none elected leaders  do not care about public opinion because they can not be voted out...       So it must have really piss them off when one of their major financial contributors decided to leave , because of a public democratic vote..  

[oilmagnet477]

Cameron went to the EU in advance of the vote to seek changes. The fact that they sent him away with a flea in his ear was what largely led to the referendum.

The leaders of the EU are a bunch of self interested bastards who are out to look after the club and its rules and not worry about the needs of its members.

That is reason enough toleave IMO

[ChrisJ]

 

[Andyww]

58 minutes ago, CHANGES said:

Well maybe they should have considered how public opinion was, then made it more attractive or us to stay..   

Its actually worse than this. Juncker knew since his appointment that the UK was against further integration and federalism but continually advocated these at every opportunity just to taunt the UK.