Brexit

[ChrisJ]

As I understand it, prior to the Immigration acts of the 1960s ALL Commonwealth citizens had the right to travel to the UK visa free, work settle down etc.. People would come and go as they liked and there was no need to "claim asylum" - like my previous example. However during the 1960s a number of acts were passed in parliament to restrict the rights of Commonwealth citizens to this free entry. 

• Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962
• Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1968
• Immigration Act 1971

The last one was the nail in the coffin as it gave European Community citizens priority over non EC citizens (i.e. Commonwealth). So eventually leading to the current situation where a Commonwealth citizen(*) has to fight to get a visa to come here, and then once here claim asylum to be able to stay. 

(*) although Australian, New Zealand, Canada and some South Africans don't necessarily have to fight so hard - see below. 

There was a scheme called the Working Holiday Visa  - (now morphed into the Youth Mobility Scheme visa). This was available to ALL Commonwealth citizens under the age of 26( I think), and allowed successful applicants to come to the UK to work for 6 months, travel for 6 months, work 6 months and travel 6 months before going home. I knew about this before I moved to Africa as I had employed a couple of Zimbabweans how were in the UK under this scheme (although they worked solidly for the whole two years before returning to Zimbabwe).

When I was in Uganda I had cause to visit the British High Commission a number of times to obtain visas for people to travel to the UK. During the time I was in country it became more and more difficult for Ugandans' to obtain visas to the UK, and when I raised the question of the Working Holiday visa. I detected some panic in the chap I was talking to and was basically told not to mention this scheme to Ugandans. On investigating further there had been ONE successful applicant from Uganda in the previous 5 or so years, whereas the countries named above had numbers in the hundreds, if not thousands.

The current scheme is now restricted to

• Australia - 31,000 visas
• Canada - 6,000 visas
• Hong Kong - 1,000 visas
• Japan - 1,000 visas
• Monaco - 1,000 visas
• New Zealand - 14,000 visas
• South Korea - 1,000 visas
• Taiwan - 1,000 visas

This was changed in 2008 from the one I knew about (and I thought was still in operation).

 

Edit to add: This has awoken my interest and I've sent a FOI request for the figures for all countries for the 5 years before and after the scheme was changed. See if my memory was correct.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Looks like Cummings will get what he wants. Boris declaring ‘time’s up’ for the trade negotiations. Hard Brexit here we come.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54566897

[Barrykearley]

Hurrah - at long last

[Andyww]

Look forward to seeing a no-deal working without affecting trade.

For my own business I put into place PLT (paperless trade) ages ago so we can send worldwide with no accompanying paperwork at all. Works beautifully.

For Brexit all I have to do is change one setting to enable PLT for EU countries, which will take 1 minute. I have no idea why some people are going on about endless queues of trucks to the ports. I might be wrong as some of the people complaining about this are haulage companies but we will see.

[ChrisJ]

Check out her last sentence - "We also acknowledge that the UK would like to have a certain amount of independence"

I'm sorry, but if that is the correct translation, this is a complete lack of understanding of the UK.

 

[Barrykearley]

She needs to just admit the fourth reich has fallen 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes the translation is correct.

[Kimbers]

I'm sure many of you know what I do part time.

Just recently I had an experience that changed my mind a little on this subject. We were called to a truck with "Movement" being heard in the back, by the driver. On opening it up we found 6 illegals who had sneaked into it maybe at a truck stop he parked at overnight before crossing the channel. 

5 of them were young African men, of course they all said they were under 18 didn't have any ID etc etc. Normal situation.

However one was a early middle aged woman who I dealt with because I was the only one with a female crew partner.

She could understand what we were saying to a point, using pigeon English and French. I won't and can't go into details here but she was genuine. She had left her kids behind to try and get a new start and then bring them over, because of abuse and discrimination (she was a christian in a country that doesn't allow freedom of religion). What she had been through in her own country was horrific and I know this won't necessarily make me popular but I agree with what she did and how she did it 100%. All she was trying to do was get away!

You see, we forget here, with our jobs, money, freedom of expression and religion etc, just how bad it can be elsewhere. And when people say how bad it is we say " Well leave then". But many people don't have the resources and where would she go? We are very lucky in that if we wanted to leave our country we can just up sticks and leave. Many of us have resources or could sell our houses and use the monies to relocate.

She's a seamstress which isn't a required skill here or anywhere really. She's poor and relatively uneducated due to her countries gender laws. She was force married into an abusive relationship and if she left her husband or had an affair she would be killed. So she fled.

I Don't agree with the huge number of young males illegally entering the country but I do genuinely think our view on these young men colours our view on genuine cases to a point where we refuse entry to those who need it most. I would genuinely have helped her in any way I could. I would have given her a place to stay, somewhere safe which she hasn't had for the last 15 years and I would even have used my own money.

Luckily we have things in place and she got a warm bed for the night and food. However I know the next day she would be picked up by immigration and moved to a Immigration centre. All I could do was write a report saying what she had told us and that I believed she was genuine.

I am no longer an Immigration nay sayer. I am an Immigration believer as long as its the correct kind of people.

 

[Barrykearley]

Sadly @kimbers - probably 99% of the individuals claiming asylum are not genuine. That’s the very problem we have.

[C8RKH]

Immigration is a complex issue but I would suggest what you are really discussing here is asylum and not immigration.

Immigration - we as a sovereign country have the right to decide who comes her to live, to work, to holiday whatever. We do not need to provide them with anything and can request that they fully comply with our laws etc.

Asylum - we as a sovereign country have the right to decide to provide asylum to people who are oppressed or at risk of harm due to their politics, race, sex, religion, colour or whatever. As an asylum seeker we have the right, and I would argue the obligation, to provide these people with accommodation and shelter. Safety. Food, water and clothing. And the right to practice their religion/beliefs etc so long as doing so does not contravene our laws or put our citizens at risk.

Immigration is there for people who want to come here to ask to come here. Asylum is their to offer a safe haven for those who need it.

As a principled country I think it is absolutely right re offer and provide Asylum to those who need it. I have absolutely no issue with it. Just as I have no issue with immigration, but the latter has to be on our terms and by our rules.

I do get totally pissed of at the EU and her member states who consistently and repeatably disregard their own laws for their own ends and who stand apart as individuals, rather than rallying around as partners to support each other.

 

 

[mdw]

Over the last 7 years we have fostered 4 refugees.    3 told the imigration officers at their substantive interview the same story almost word for word ( I had to sit in and listen as the adult).  2 were under 16 just  2 were very much over 16 and confirmed it to us once their time in foster care was over.    One I have "supported" through ( since he left us) 2x no insurance on scooters, one assault on a friend, one criminal damage, one assault of an out of uniform police officer,    with  the latest 3rd no insurance  and assault I cut him free to deal with by himself.   They all have very different views on life over here and seem to think like home our rules should be flexable or " they dont matter".     One I attended a hospital appointment with  as he had hep c  where he was told if he infects  a partner it could be considered assault.   His view was" its not a problem every one at home has it".    Im very grateful I dont have daughters!!!

After being told "give me my money it my right" or words to that effect by 3 of the 4 we no longer foster refugees, I simply couldnt put up with it any more.      English kids are much much  more damaged but the feeling  of acheivement  looking after them is worth every bit of stress.    Most of the "refugees" have had happy normal childhoods , their problems started on the journey over and yes it is a horrible journey.  Im sure there are some genuine ones but from the 8-9 I have met I think most are economic refugees or  dont want to do national service at home.   They all have a false view of life in the uk provided by the trafficers who advertise there services like a package holiday in their home countrys.

We have a 2nd rate asylum system which needs a total overhaul.  Its creating the problem not solving it.

[ChrisJ]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/313310/signatures/new

signed

[Kimbers]

I can't say mate. its not a question I asked her.

[C8RKH]

15 hours ago, Buddsy said:

You suggested she didnt speak English very well so where was she heading? Just to into England or to London?

Most likely London as I don't believe there are any "English" living there any more so the language issue would not be a barrier!  Of course, only joking!

The real question you asked Buddsy that no one prefers to answer is "Why did she risk her life to cross the channel" when she had the right to stay and be looked after in whatever country she was in in Europe?  Could it be that those countries are no not run by lefty do gooder snowflakes who are quite happy to give everything away because they "have a good story"?  What about the people in this country already (born here or not) who have a good story and need help, support, care etc? Oh yes, we can't afford to help them as we have others who we really know nothing about who are more "deserving"!  The whole situation stinks. From us "paying" the French to control "THEIR" borders to us accepting people who illegally pay to come here.

As I said in my earlier post, I'm not heartless, and the asylum process is a good thing that exists to do good, but our systems are being abused by people who have the economic means to either travel here themselves, or send their family members here, under false pretences. The Government needs to get a grip. Not be ruthless. Nor heartless. Nor abusive. But it does need to get back in control and send a very clear message about what we will and will not tolerate.

[Bibs]

The Aussie were quite direct in their approach!

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/australia-controversial-no-way-anti-immigration-advert-sparks-outrage-1470023

[Chillidoggy]

Just spotted this - 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-japan-agree-historic-free-trade-agreement?fbclid=IwAR0OoC7Nhv5FBhxB9JS6BBf8TJHW2kQJVgAXmPEAlDRGGFjq5EyoyR26vhE
 

No doubt the BBC will be giving it the best of attention.

[march]

@ChillidoggyThat's old news and yes it did make the news broadcasters. Not passing comment on the level fanfare / coverage it was given as I can't remember (that may be just old age kicking in or the amount of air time it was given 🤪).

[C8RKH]

Oooh. Had not realised the Japan deal had got through as the last I heard we were arguing over Cheese of all things!  Who'd have thought that?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes, but please put it into perspective. Japan currently amounts to about 2% of our exports and the deal is not dissimilar to what the EU already had in place with Japan. I think there was a more recent story about the EU not accepting Japanese car parts to be regarded as British if and when any deal is agreed in selling UK assembled vehicles to the EU. I think min. 55% or so of the vehicle would need to be made from British manufactured parts. Of course that doesn’t mean we couldn’t  make more parts here if necessary, but I guess the economies of scale from a cost point of view would bear no comparison to Japanese production.

Edited October 20, 2020 by LotusLeftLotusRight

[C8RKH]

The issue is I believe yet again the EU swivelling the table to suit themselves re the car parts. Bear in mind those same car parts currently, many of them are used in cars made in the UK and in Europe (the exact same parts) and as part of the exit agreement the UK asked for those parts to be treated as they are now. The EU of course, said No as they believed it gave them a bargaining advantage. All is fair in love and war after all.

Look at the key issues:

Fishing - the French and the EU are moaning like shit because their fishermen and the communities they support will go out of business. Well, were exactly was their concern for UK fisherfolk and their communities when they manipulated the quotas and paid for the UK fleet to be scrapped?  We have had fisher communities that have been devastated and torn apart for years and no-one in the EU gave a flying a fig about it. They built up their fleets, they built factory ships and now they plunder and rape the sea at will. Oh happy days.

Government subsidies - the French, German and Spanish in particular are moaning like shit about the prospect of the Uk government supporting UK firms when they have ripped up the rule book and flagrantly abused the rules for decades allowing their companies to take over Uk competitors whilst actively blocking UK companies from taking theirs overs. At the same time they have pumped government money through "stakeholdings" into their utilities, their manufacturers (Airbus anyone), etc. They would not know a level playing field if they stumbled over one.

Ha, I pissed myself laughing at Macron's latest outburst at how he was going to cut off our energy supply. The twit does not realise that we are a net importer of energy from the EU. You just could not make it up.

We could go on and on. The fact is that the EU is an elitist club that exists for one purpose, and one purpose only, and that is to consolidate power and wealth into the hands of an unelected minority.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

What is it with Boris and his inability to negotiate deals? Seriously though Andy Burnham should resign. I wonder if he will go round and console any families, who lose a relative due to the 10 day delay caused by his irresponsible money grabbing response?

[slewthy]

I guess he feels he needs to justify his role.

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of a mayor anyway. Just seems to get in the way of the governmental process, whether you agree with it or not. 

[PaulCP]

With Burnham it’s all about making a name for himself.

Threw away £60m for the sake of an extra £5m and replaced it with a big hole in his foot🤔

 

[pete]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

What is it with Boris and his inability to negotiate deals? Seriously though Andy Burnham should resign. I wonder if he will go round and console any families, who lose a relative due to the 10 day delay caused by his irresponsible money grabbing response?

And don't doubt he will be the first complaining when taxes go up to pay for it all. 

[C8RKH]

Holy mother of all things wholesome. Blimey O'Reilly. This is wonderful news.  I was dreading having to switch from Kenyan coffee to that awful Columbian...

 

"Britain has reached a free-trade deal with Kenya and in turn, strengthened its ties with the Commonwealth. The Prime Minister has now signed, or agreed in principle, trade agreements with 52 nations around the world. Those agreements are worth an estimated £146billion to the UK economy, according to 2019 figures"