Brexit

[march]

Well the petition is just coming up to 110,000 and the count is speeding up - pretty sure it wont make any difference at all.

[SFO]

I voted remain too but would vote leave now. 

The EU has truly shown its ugly sides since we voted to leave. I don’t want to be stuck in a Club where leaving is such a pain and where we are punished like naughty kids for daring to think for ourselves, where the folks running it are running it for their own self interests and where fundamentally their way of operating and thinking is so different to our own.

Best we bite the bullet now and extricate ourselves before it becomes even more impossible later. We have been through lots pain and hassle now, we may as well finish the job. 

[Steve V8]

11 hours ago, Black Forest Power said:

I do not like at all that EU is not flexible, not ready to reform

@Black Forest Power your comments and concerns are welcome, it good to take onboard your perspective from outside the UK. 

The above section from your post, for me sums up why a lot of us here want to leave. The EU over the years has slowly but surely granted itself greater and greater powers. Our country's infrastructure, national health and welfare services are now at breaking point, EU freedom of movement rules have made us a honey pot for economic migrants from inside and outside Europe. We welcome with open arms the majority who come here to work (without claiming housing benefits, which unfortunately many do), but many also come to abuse our welfare system, and within EU law we are powerless to stop it. We cannot cope with the influx on average of around 250,000 people per year every year. And certainly don't want the people, sex and drug traffickers, pickpockets, shoplifters and thieves from certain Eastern European countries, but remain powerless to do anything about it.

The EU's unelected beurocrats fail to recognise the needs of its individual members, it has given itself the power to overrule democratic decisions, it has become too big for its boots, and without reform, we no longer want to be a part of it. Given the chance to control our borders and laws, with reform, most of us would probably wish to remain.

 

[Andyww]

Above all correct.

It looks like another big push for a second referendum today, this time from some Tory MPs. I do unfortunately think they will get what they want.

What would the result be though? One of the phrases which was repeated ad-nauseum by remainers during the first vote was they wanted to "remain in a reformed EU". Well they cant use that again! Any talk of being able to reform the EU will be laughed-at next time.

I do think that enough people will have been scared shitless by fake news next time though to swing if to remain.

[PaulCP]

I see Tony B liar has been given air time again and is still trying to interfere by undermining protocol and meeting individuals in the EU. Can someone please find a way of calling his actions treason and lock him up in the Tower of London! 

Then we have the master of “let’s keep having a referendum until we get the result that I want” getting on her soapbox again, telling labour what to do. Not that she’s got another motive in mind at all 

 

[Barrykearley]

That petition is at 145k now. I wonder at what point they will start to take notice.

ken Clarke’s position on not wanting another vote is the key for me - they’ve clearly looked into this at great depths

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

What’s that? 0.2% of the population? Pretty meaningless when compared to the 17.4 million who voted leave  in 2016.

Even Boaty McBoatface polled 125,000 votes back then.

Edited December 16, 2018 by LotusLeftLotusRight

[mdw]

A 2nd vote would be the thing that would get me on to the streets.   There is a large silent  mass of people who regularly hand over our decisions to government  via the democratic process.  We accept they will F&^% it up some times ( quite a lot of times)  but thats life and democracy and we get another vote every 5 years.   When you ask us for a direct vote I expect its results  to be carried out.   There are a lot of middle aged middle class  people who I know  who have told me this ignoring of the democratic process is the one thing in their whole lives  that will make them march.   Its not actually the eu question its the disregard of the popular vote.   They should have worded it differently ( asked for a 60/40 minimum split)  if they wanted a different answer. Decision is made. What ever happens we make it work, we dont just collapse on the floor and say the end of the world has come.   

[LotusFella]

34 minutes ago, mdw said:

A 2nd vote would be the thing that would get me on to the streets.   There is a large silent  mass of people who regularly hand over our decisions to government  via the democratic process.  We accept they will F&^% it up some times ( quite a lot of times)  but thats life and democracy and we get another vote every 5 years.   When you ask us for a direct vote I expect its results  to be carried out.   There are a lot of middle aged middle class  people who I know  who have told me this ignoring of the democratic process is the one thing in their whole lives  that will make them march.   Its not actually the eu question its the disregard of the popular vote.   They should have worded it differently ( asked for a 60/40 minimum split)  if they wanted a different answer. Decision is made. What ever happens we make it work, we dont just collapse on the floor and say the end of the world has come.   

TOTALLY AGREE!

[jonwat]

Should never have put a bunch of remainers (May, Hammond & ALL the civil service) in charge of getting us out. 

She's rolled over & submitted to EVERYTHING they've demanded by over ruling her negoiaters (David Davis & Dominic Raab). 

[Kimbers]

My issue now is that any new referendum vote looks likely to be a 3 way split. 1. Remain, 2. Leave with Mays Deal, 3. Leave with no deal.

For me this is fundamentally against Democracy and an obvious blindside by the Politicians to split the leave vote 2 ways while everyone else votes remain.

If there is a second referendum I truly believe we will see much worse than we are in Paris at present. I also think UKIP will get in at the next General Election should we not Leave. 

[andydclements]

9 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

My issue now is that any new referendum vote looks likely to be a 3 way split. 1. Remain, 2. Leave with Mays Deal, 3. Leave with no deal.

For me this is fundamentally against Democracy and an obvious blindside by the Politicians to split the leave vote 2 ways while everyone else votes remain.

If there is a second referendum I truly believe we will see much worse than we are in Paris at present. I also think UKIP will get in at the next General Election should we not Leave. 

Three options doesn't have to be one where it splits the "leave" vote.

It can be set in many ways. Just one example would be 

1) stay

2) leave, whether we have a deal or not

3) leave, only if the deal is in place

4) leave, and we don't want a deal.

 

It would probably need to be simpler than that for the electorate to not get tens of thousand of errors, but I'm sure you get the idea that three ways doesn't mean diluting the leave options.

It could also be

 

If we have  a deal,we should

1) leave

2) stay

 

If we don't have a deal we should

1) leave

2) stay

[Barrykearley]

Political elite are shaking - they know the backlash that will occur.

May will force the deal to parliament - she will lose the vote. We will exit 

 

 

 

 

I hope

[Chillidoggy]

I’m ready.

[Chillidoggy]

And a motion of no confidence has been tabled.

[Andyww]

More BBC bias.

Todays story on huge levels of non-repayment of student loans totally fails to mention this:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/820072/Scandal-foreign-EU-students-owe-Britain-1-2-BILLION-student-loans-university

Note: I dont have a lot of confidence in the Express but their report is backed-up by the Times although they last mentioned it in 2016 so their figures are lower.

[Barrykearley]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46600850

 

finally 

[Mark Blanchard]

13 hours ago, Andyww said:

Todays story on huge levels of non-repayment of student loans

We can thank Blair for this.  I remember this discussion well, "you'll earn more so you'll be able to pay it back."  What a twat.

 

[Barrykearley]

13 hours ago, Andyww said:

More BBC bias.

Todays story on huge levels of non-repayment of student loans totally fails to mention this:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/820072/Scandal-foreign-EU-students-owe-Britain-1-2-BILLION-student-loans-university

Note: I dont have a lot of confidence in the Express but their report is backed-up by the Times although they last mentioned it in 2016 so their figures are lower.

I can see this turning to a lovely spin policy to engage with university students. I can see the debts being written down with savings from not paying the EU 39bn

Funny just how often the words Blair and Twat appear in the same sentence 

[Barrykearley]

In weatherspoons today 👍

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

All business leaders only promote self-interest. What’s best for their business is apparently best for everyone else. Branson says Remain is best because it means cheaper holidays and more business for Virgin. Dyson says Leave is best because he makes all his appliances in Asia and he’s hoping to sell them to us tariff-free. They’re even worse than the politicians when it comes to promoting their propaganda.

[Andyww]

There is another reason for Dyson hating the EU. They implemented a maximum power consumption of vacuum cleaners and they set the figure at exactly the highest one produced by any German manufacturer. His came in higher so he had to re-design to reduce the power, but that reduces the suction.

[Barrykearley]

He could hate them because they are a bunch of corrupt unelected dirtbags

[Andyww]

Well exactly. They have a record of only supporting German industry. Another example of this is we pay much higher pricing for solar PV panels from China as there is a regulated min import price which is to protect German companies.

An immediate effect of a no deal would be 20% cheaper solar power.

 

[Barrykearley]

That’ll be the various German pv panel manufacturers.

whats conveniently missing is that there are no PV solar cell fab factories in Germany. These are nearly all in India, China or Korea and imported into Germany - then stuck in a frame with a bit of glass and a big made in Germany sticker whopped on it