Formula One

[PaulCP]

Yep, Lewis pushes Max slightly wide at Silverstone and gets a penalty, Max pushes Lewis even wider & completely off the track in Brazil and no action taken.

Hamilton’s reaction from the cockpit said it all when he was told by Wolf that the move was deemed safe by the stewards when he replied “of course”

The stewards decision in Brazil has indicated to all drivers that pushing another driver wide and off the track is acceptable. We need consistency of application of the rules and driving standards otherwise F1 is really going to turn into the next remake of ‘Mad Max’

[exeterjeep]

Yesterdays result does mean that the next race will be more interesting and dependent on that result then the race after etc. Lewis is British and I want him to win and also beat the MS joint record of championships.

[TdM]

This is environmental emblematic of Max's driving and attitude.

Your aren't allowed to overtake me and I can do anything I like to stop it.

This makes overtaking on anything other than a straight impossible because as we've just seen, if you get passed him, he will just divebomb the space with no intention of making the corner and worry about the consequences later.

The stewards have consistently enabled this behaviour since he started in F1 and the pundits have largely applauded as well as they enjoyed the 'spice' getting added.

Max is undoubtedly one of the fastest ever drivers in F1 and will probably become extremely successful, but at the moment yes going to taint any success with dirty driving and cheating.

The stewarding has been a joke in F1 for years. It's the only sport I know of where they just don't apply penalties because they don't want to interfere. It's like a player in football going clear through on goal and the keeper trading his ankles out from under him, then the ref saying 'play on' because he doesn't want to upset anyone. 

With the black and white flags, it's like giving a yellow for a professional foul and then if they do it again but giving another because you don't want to affect the game.

If rules are rules for technical issues, they should be for sporting issues as well. Unfair pay is unfair play and in sport, usually seen as much worse than a technical infringment.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

40 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I'm sorry @LotusLeftLotusRightbut Verstappen never had any intention to make that corner and the situation could have mirrored Silverstone.

I agree with you 100%, but didn’t want to make my post too anti MV and give him the benefit of any doubt. But from my armchair it looked like MV knew exactly what he was doing: he was never going to take the racing line through that corner. He knew he was going to end up going wide and taking LH with him. As for the zigzagging, can you imagine what Horner would have said to race control if someone did that to MV when he was trying to overtake? Probably not “just let them race…”

[Chillidoggy]

Hamster was sooo much faster, where on earth did that come from? Maybe Mercedes forgot to fix his rear wing.

Anyway, I'm pleased to see the championship is still up for grabs, hopefully it's gonna go down to the wire.

[C8RKH]

Yup fine line @LotusLeftLotusRight re being seen to being as "nasty" as RB/Max.

i genuinely was a fan of RB, always rooted for Webber, Rickyhaveago. Admired Vettel but didn't like him, have to say I've warmed to him over the past few years.

I just think with Max he's like lots of endulged kids, he just needs a good boot up his arse and learn some respect / manners. I don't buy the BS re hard racing, we've seen plenty of very hard but clean racing and to me those drivers are the ones worthy of respect. 

[exeterjeep]

5 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

for Webber, Rickyhaveago

They have/had a good personality.

[jonwat]

Audi buys McLaren, not so long ago McLaren refused to be bought by Mercedes 

[TdM]

Only reported in slightly untrustworthy places at the moment, but would be interesting

[PaulCP]

@C8RKH Your comment re Vettel mirrors exactly what I was saying to MrsCP whilst watching Top Gear yesterday.
Vettel is now much more relaxed and has turned into Mr Personality which is exactly what F1 needs these days, drivers who are capable but also who are relaxed and personable.

Remember the “old days” when we had Herbert, Brundel, Irvine, Button, Hunt etc and how some used to let their hair down after the British GP and play in the band with Eddie Jordan, Hill etc

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

True, but it was usually the intense introverts who had the most success with multiple championships: Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Vettel etc.

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, PaulCP said:

Remember the “old days” when we had Herbert, Brundel, Irvine, Button, Hunt etc and how some used to let their hair down after the British GP and play in the band with Eddie Jordan, Hill etc

Oh yes. I got to go to the F1 ball a few years ago and Jordan was there in the band. Great times and great night!  You are right though, we need drivers to be "fun" and engaging

[EldonZ]

I have to agree with @C8RKH, Max drives to protect his position, not defend it. Both Max and Lewis enter the corner with Lewis in the lead thus by the regs, the corner is Lewis's and not Max's. Max now has to find a way to negotiate the corner, not control it. Instead, he decides to brake later and make it look like he cannot make the corner. Very smart on his part but it shows you the type of driver he is. I believe Max will win the WDC, too, because it seems that Lady Luck is on his side. What everyone seems to forget is that Lewis loss 1st or 2nd at Azerbaijan which would have either put Lewis in the lead or tied.

Later,
Eldon

[PAR]

20 hours ago, PaulCP said:

 

Yes rules are rules, but the level of punishment to a driver for a car’s technical infringement resulting from a malfunction v a driver knowingly breaching the rules by closely examining a rivals car seem quite dis-proportionate.

That is just mis-informed, one is a regulation breach and an automatic disqualification the other is a sporting regulation violation and could have been nothing, a fine, potentially community service, in a much more far fetched scenario super licence points and a grid penalty (3 spots is an option). This is already the biggest penalty ever inflicted for such an odd event. It happened many times without penalties. 
 

At the end of the day, it had no impact on the championship result as they finished 1-2 as they would have with no penalty.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

3 hours ago, jonwat said:

Audi buys McLaren, not so long ago McLaren refused to be bought by Mercedes 

McLaren claiming BS.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/mclaren-officially-denies-being-sold-to-audi/44932

[jonwat]

5 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

McLaren claiming BS.

OMG Autocar got it wrong, never been known before  🤣

[TdM]

I agree somewhat with Paul though.

It's factual that tech regulations are generally cut and dry and result in race affecting penalties, however, if a driver were to walk over and actively fiddle with a competitors car par that then fails scrutineering, they should be disqualified not given a fine/grid penalty.

I'm not saying that's what happened here, I don't think Max did more that touch the wing but I think it's incorrect to see a sporting regulation as less important than technical directives.

An analogy would be, a 100m sprint is run, the second place runner goes over in front of cameras, takes the winners shoes, shoves springs into the soles and then points the officials to the offending shoes.

Should the officials disqualify the winner immediately and fine the second place guy some of his pocket money for fiddling with said shoes OR question what state the shoes were in before they were fiddled with and investigate the second place guy before banning him from competition for cheating (which is exactly what the IOC would do).

Again, that's not what happened in Brazil but I'm trying to demonstrate that sportsmanship should be the core in sport. I think the seed of doubt planted by Max's investigation, at least needed to be acknowledged and counted publicly as that's exactly what the rule is there for.

[mg4lotus]

From what I recall seeing on the telly last night he seemed to be using enough force to test the flexibility, which is a bit of a risky thing to do on someone else's car when you don't know how it is constructed. When you hear it crack you turn around and walk away whilst whistling innocently. 

When Hamilton was showing the three children his car and he was explaining how strong the front wing was and said the boy could stand on it, the boy did....CRACK.... "No, not that bit" 😄

[PaulCP]

Ot was a clear examination of the gap in the rear wing, a little more than just a 2 second touch. Brundle clearly didn’t want to get into the damage later in the video & tries to brush it aside

The complaint was made by RB after this

Stewards have said that any future further breaches of a similar nature by drivers may incur a stiffer penalty. I know others disagree but IMO Max definitely got off light.
 

 

[C8RKH]

Max also got off light when he forced Lewis off track in Turn 4 was it. Plenty drivers been given 5 second penalties this year for less blatant forcing off track than that. Also as Max gained a lasting advantage the decision to not investigate further, let alone not give a penalty is surely a disgrace.

The Stewards got that one very wrong and they themselves need a reprimand or sanction. It happens in other sports where the decisions of the referees are monitored and action is taken where they have screwed up.

Given their earlier total leniency to unsporting behaviour at Turn 4, when Max then weaved on the straight he should have gotten a 5 second penalty straight off. But of course he didn't as that would have demoted him to 3rd.

As I've said many times, until the Sport grows a pair and tackles Max attitude / behaviour properly, he will continue to drive like a twat and as @EldonZ  pointed out drive to protect, rather than defend, his position.

[pete]

There is no doubting Hamilton's race craft is second to none but as the saying goes "opinions are like ar###les , we all have one

[Evotion]

It has passed the point of being a bit farcical. The lack of consistency is further highlights by Max continuing to get away with things that others might not.

He is great for the sport, as part of its future, and I cannot help but like his swashbuckling aggressive nature but he really need a huge hammer to come down on him so he takes a small step backwards.

Still, the one who winds me up the most is Horner. 

[Chillidoggy]

Ironically, were Horner prevented from moaning, there are those here who would have nothing to moan about.

[exeterjeep]

I am sure we could find something/someone else.

[Chillidoggy]

I agree, it's a pleasurable pastime.