Formula One

[LotusFella]

All they will do is sack Masi and let the result stand.

[jimichanga]

None of us will ever know how or why Masi changed the thing about cars not unlapping themselves, however the original idea was only done to get them racing asap, I really don’t buy the conspiracy theory of Max being favoured.

But when it comes to attempts to manipulate Masi none are as dangerous or reprehensible  as Wolff pleading with him to not put the safety car out. Heat of the moment lapse of judgment no doubt but takes the prize.

[PaulCP]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-masis-latest-marginal-call-has-left-f1-with-a-sour-taste/6880828/

[C8RKH]

8 minutes ago, LotusFella said:

All they will do is sack Masi and let the result stand.

Fine by me. I'd be happy with that to be honest as some sort of justice would be done.

Next year, we need a Race Director who can actually direct, with authority, clarity and fairness. So that rules out Masi and Mr. Magoo who I am beginning to think are one and the same.

I also think that next year we need to:

1. Remove all external inbound comms to the Stewards/Race Director - so that means no team directors, team bosses, etc and NO Liberty Media etc and the Stewards decide what they listen to from where etc.

2. Stewards need to make ALL decisions regarding racing incidents

3. Race Director focus is on safety and ensuring the races are run to the letter of the rule book etc - communication with the Race Director is one way, from the Race Director

 

[Simon Bateman]

4 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

None of us will ever know how or why Masi changed the thing about cars not unlapping themselves, however the original idea was only done to get them racing asap, I really don’t buy the conspiracy theory of Max being favoured.

But when it comes to attempts to manipulate Masi none are as dangerous or reprehensible  as Wolff pleading with him to not put the safety car out. Heat of the moment lapse of judgment no doubt but takes the prize.

I don't think Masi set out to favour Max. I suspect he would have done the same if Hamilton was the second placed driver, but that doesn't make his actions correct.

It was a clear case of manipulating and contriving the rules/circumstances to produce what he and his paymasters would perceive to be a more entertaining conclusion, when in reality it demeans the sport and efforts put in (on this occasion) by Mercedes.

[C8RKH]

11 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

None of us will ever know how or why Masi changed the thing about cars not unlapping themselves, however the original idea was only done to get them racing asap, I really don’t buy the conspiracy theory of Max being favoured.

But when it comes to attempts to manipulate Masi none are as dangerous or reprehensible  as Wolff pleading with him to not put the safety car out. Heat of the moment lapse of judgment no doubt but takes the prize.

I'll let this from the article from motorsport.com speak for itself. The fact that there has been such a response I think suggests that something is not right. There is too much here that breaks the rules, and convention, for this to be a "simple" oversight for sure. Whether you like Hamilton or not, and it is clear you do not, to lose in that way is not good. But again, nothing against Max meant by that. He just seized the chance presented to him on a plate by Uncle Masi.

 

But then things deviated from the norm when Masi informed teams: "Lapped cars will not be allowed to overtake."

That decision meant that, if the race restarted, then Max Verstappen on his fresh soft tyres would need to clear five backmarkers before he could have a shot at snatching the lead, and with it the title, from Lewis Hamilton.

But shortly after a delayed radio message was played from Red Bull boss Christian Horner to Masi, urging him to clear the backmarkers, convention was again broken as on the penultimate lap only a select few cars were told to unlap themselves.

 

Then, to further compound the confusion, Masi elected to restart the race at the end of that same lap, and not at the end of the following lap as the sporting regulations dictate.

With Verstappen on fresh softs, and Hamilton on well-used hards, it was obvious which man held the clear advantage once battle resumed.

The U-turn on the backmarkers being allowed to unlap themselves, the decision to then only let a few move forward, and then the rushed restart, all came together to leave F1, the FIA and Masi facing a barrage of criticism over what happened.

Ultimately, the circumstances meant Masi played God in being the man who decided which way the championship went, as it depended entirely on that restart call.

[jimichanga]

47 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

@jimichangayour analysis really says ‘the rules, common sense and F1’s credibility are meaningless. Next season let’s just have every race as a 1 lap shootout
BTW, Lewis decided not to pit during the virtual SC, not his team

That’s not what I’m saying that’s what you want other people to think. Lewis repeatedly questioned Merc’s decision not to pit on the team radio as everyone heard.

Masi was applying the rules within the goal of to ‘letting them race’, deciding the drivers title under a safety car goes against this, is bad for the spectacle of the sport and the race director has the final say over safety car rules.

Masi wanted the title to be decided by racing as would everyone here if Hamilton had managed to keep MV behind. LH fans have twisted that as proof that he wanted MV to win and there is plenty of evidence to the contrary for those willing to look and see beyond their bias. Not least ‘letting them race’ when Lewis got an advantage by cutting the track at the start. Unless Latifi’s crash was deliberate the result wasn’t engineered. Masi only had 2 options and no time to consider either carefully, finish it under the safety car (neither driver deserved to lose like that) or find a way to let them settle it on the track. Really hard on Lewis that a safety car took away his lead but they always do that. People talk about firing Masi but who would want the job? The regs can’t cover every eventuality and at some point you need the race director a human being to make a judgement call. I believe he did what he thought was in the sport’s best interests not MVs. Lewis has shown immense class in the cruellest of defeats, no problem admitting that MV would be unlikely to be so gracious.

Edited December 13, 2021 by jimichanga

[rudolphwolven]

*****

Former Formula 1 CEO Bernie Ecclestone has said Max Verstappen is the deserved world champion. “At a very young age, he has already been able to compete with Lewis Hamilton, one of the best drivers ever. Not just on the track, but also off it.”

That said the 91-year-old Briton in an interview with a media group from Munich. Verstappen decided in his favor on the last lap of the last Grand Prix. Ecclestone: „And that while the Mercedes team has gone out of its way to bully him, to upset him. Mercedes also has the best car at its disposal. That makes Verstappen's performance even more valuable. He makes the difference in the race.”

Ecclestone considers it incomprehensible that Mercedes does not seem to accept the defeat for the time being. “They probably build the best cars in the world. But with this attitude, they put scratches on their own star. That is very unwise.”

Ecclestone therefore calls Mercedes' behavior a joke. “Their team bosses try to influence race management decisions even during the race. The sport suffers as a result. Pure competition should come first. The drivers have provided great sport. It's a shame it's overshadowed in this way."

Edited December 13, 2021 by rudolphwolven

[C8RKH]

@rudolphwolven I only see one "bully" on the race track and it is not Lewis Hamilton. Who was doing all the boo-ing and behaving in a loutish way all season?  Hmmmm, let me think. Horner has been every bit the bully this year too. Laying in to Hamilton and Mercedes and what about the side show that is Helmet Marko?  The Bez of the Happy Bulls!  Red Bull as a team have bullied Lewis all year. Any more or worse than Mercedes on Max?  Probably the same to be fair.

I don't buy this sob story from Max re "no luck this year" - well bugger me, Spa was a load of luck that made a real difference to the championship - again manipulated by Massi - as it gave Max an extra "win" for running a few laps behind a safety car. Well bugger me, if that wasn't Lady Luck shining on Max!

As for Ecclestone, his comments all season have been biased against Lewis as he did not want to see Lewis beating Schumacher's record, surpassing his legacy.

Instead of arguing back and forth, I suggest that we agree that Max is a worthy winner, but the manner of the win will leave a sour taste for some time to come in some peoples mouths.  Will that bother Max? I doubt it. But I do think Max will find it tougher on the track next year as people will not be so willing to yield.

As for Hamilton, I think he has conducted himself as a true champion and has actually earned my total respect this year. I never used to like him, and still don't like his "politics", but boy, do I respect him as a driver and a champion.

[Simon Bateman]

11 minutes ago, rudolphwolven said:

*****

Former Formula 1 CEO Bernie Ecclestone has said Max Verstappen is the deserved world champion. “At a very young age, he has already been able to compete with Lewis Hamilton, one of the best drivers ever. Not just on the track, but also off it.”

That said the 91-year-old Briton in an interview with a media group from Munich. Verstappen decided in his favor on the last lap of the last Grand Prix. Ecclestone: „And that while the Mercedes team has gone out of its way to bully him, to upset him. Mercedes also has the best car at its disposal. That makes Verstappen's performance even more valuable. He makes the difference in the race.”

Ecclestone considers it incomprehensible that Mercedes does not seem to accept the defeat for the time being. “They probably build the best cars in the world. But with this attitude, they put scratches on their own star. That is very unwise.”

Ecclestone therefore calls Mercedes' behavior a joke. “Their team bosses try to influence race management decisions even during the race. The sport suffers as a result. Pure competition should come first. The drivers have provided great sport. It's a shame it's overshadowed in this way."

You may want to read Bernie's Twitter account from yesterday.

100% the opposite.

[exeterjeep]

Do we know yet when the Merc appeal hearing may be. As I suppose we can carry on until then and beyond, all the way to the start of next season. 

 

[pete]

Mercedes have to object by Thursday when the FIA 'party' takes place. However looks like mercedes won't be pursuing it any further

[PaulCP]

@jimichangaI am not particularly a LH fan so my views are not as biased as you might believe. (although LH has gained my respect for how he has handled the situation afterwards)

Masi’s application of the rules actually went against more than 1 of the rules, (see my link to Motorsport article which I think @C8RKHhas summarised above)

LH cut the corner early in the race because he was forced off the track, so by not being ordered to give the position back saved Masi from having to consider a time penalty for MV.

No, of course the race wasn’t rigged, and it is clear that Lafiti’s unfortunate accident put Masi in to a difficult situation. However he handled it very badly without using an ounce of common sense.

What Masi did at Spa was also beyond belief, a 2 lap “race” behind a safety car to be able to declare a result. He has demonstrated this season that he is unfit to be race director.

So, we have different opinions hence we will have to agree to disagree.

[LotusFella]

32 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

That’s not what I’m saying that’s what you want other people to think. Lewis repeatedly questioned Merc’s decision not to pit on the team radio as everyone heard.

Masi was applying the rules within the goal of to ‘letting them race’, deciding the drivers title under a safety car goes against this, is bad for the spectacle of the sport and the race director has the final say over safety car rules.

Masi wanted the title to be decided by racing as would everyone here if Hamilton had managed to keep MV behind. LH fans have twisted that as proof that he wanted MV to win and there is plenty of evidence to the contrary for those willing to look and see beyond their bias. Not least ‘letting them race’ when Lewis got an advantage by cutting the track at the start. Unless Latifi’s crash was deliberate the result wasn’t engineered. Masi only had 2 options and no time to consider either carefully, finish it under the safety car (neither driver deserved to lose like that) or find a way to let them settle it on the track. Really hard on Lewis that a safety car took away his lead but they always do that. People talk about firing Masi but who would want the job? The regs can’t cover every eventuality and at some point you need the race director a human being to make a judgement call. I believe he did what he thought was in the sport’s best interests not MVs. Lewis has shown immense class in the cruellest of defeats, no problem admitting that MV would be unlikely to be so gracious.

You’re so biased toward MV it’s laughable 

[pete]

Hamilton will be Sir Lewis from Wednesday

[exeterjeep]

6 minutes ago, pete said:

Hamilton will be Sir Lewis from Wednesday

Already is, perhaps made up to the house of lords.

[pete]

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Simon Bateman said:

You may want to read Bernie's Twitter account from yesterday.

100% the opposite.

Are you sure you were reading "Bernies" Twitter feed and not one of the parodies!  Bernie was very definitely spouting off against Hamilton as he does not want his beloved Michael's record broken.

[Simon Bateman]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Are you sure you were reading "Bernies" Twitter feed and not one of the parodies!  Bernie was very definitely spouting off against Hamilton as he does not want his beloved Michael's record broken.

Who knows....possibly.  I certainly dont follow him. He does seem to resent Lewis getting one more than Schumacher. 

[TdM]

I have solved the issue. Michael Masi was deploying a fix that has been in racing for years. I'm picturing a large button in his cubicle. It deploys the system to deal with run away winners. I present, the Michael Masi solution.

[PAR]

If only Mercedes had pitted Hamilton for fresh, even if he lost the position, he would have been just behind on fresh tires, not sure he can’t overtake but he would have had a very good chance.

i feel really sorry for him. Quite unfortunate that Mercedes took the bet of a race finishing under safety car. 

On the positive side, this whole year has made him much more popular. 

[TdM]

The bet of course being the fact that they couldn't unlap the cars and hold a restart in time... Which... They couldn't.

 

And yet...

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Also big congratulations to Honda. They finally did it! After years of disrespectful RBR management continually bleating on about their engine suppliers (Renault & Honda), the likes of Horner and Co had little to complain about this year. In fact, contrary to what was originally intimated, Honda will still be manufacturing, supplying and supporting the engines to RBR from their Sakura factory in Japan next year, so that should keep RBR competitive in 2022. It won’t be until 2023 that RBR takes production in-house at Milton Keynes.

[PaulCP]

12 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Are you sure you were reading "Bernies" Twitter feed and not one of the parodies!  Bernie was very definitely spouting off against Hamilton as he does not want his beloved Michael's record broken.

Under FIA rules, hasn’t Schumacher’s record already been broken though.

This season if the drivers finished the championship level on points then it went to the driver with the most race victories (apparently including the victory from the race which never took place at Spa).

Hence by my application of FIA rules, LH & MS are level at 7 championships each but since LH has the impost race wins he must have broken MS’s record 🤔

[C8RKH]

11 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

Under FIA rules, hasn’t Schumacher’s record already been broken though.

This season if the drivers finished the championship level on points then it went to the driver with the most race victories (apparently including the victory from the race which never took place at Spa).

Hence by my application of FIA rules, LH & MS are level at 7 championships each but since LH has the impost race wins he must have broken MS’s record 🤔

Lol - but no. They are equal on 7 WDC's, but I am sure that may change in either 2022 or 2023.  Let's see how hungry Max really is next year, after all, it was only a couple of weeks ago he was saying it doesn't matter how many you win after 1, as you have been the WDC.