Split Spacer Hub Carrier

[POD2100]

I am removing the rear suspension lower links on my 87 Turbo HC with a view to replacing all the fasteners and cleaning painting but have run into a problem removing the split spacer from the Hub lower link.

What is usual method of removal for these? I am unable to crush the spacer along the split, certainly not with mole grips. In most cases will it shift winding it out using a large nut and bolt with Pus gas or is this gonna have to be a hub off and press out job.

I thought I'd seek advice due to being wary of breaking the casting.

Thanks.

 

 

[Sparky]

Get a hacksaw blade down there and carefully cut through it opposite the split.  It'll soon shift!

Oh, and whereabouts in Herts?  I'm in Watford.

[POD2100]

Thanks, I figured that was a likely way of doing it,  but as movement of the blade looks a bit restricted by the other lug of the hub I figured it might take a while and the hub would need to be on a bench to do it properly.

Still time on my hands at the moment and as the other hub is almost certainly the same so I'll give it a go.

Im assuming I can just unbolt the drive shaft at the hub end so not a lot of extra work.

Im over in Stevenage so just down the road!

 

 

 

[madmax]

Just removed my hub tonight and cleaned it up prior to a repair being needed. 

I failed to get the split sleeve out although I did hacksaw the existing split - good advice to create another cut. 

Need to find someone local to me who can weld aluminium (crack was already there and a huge disappointment to find it. 

Split hasn’t gone right through somim hopeful a repair can be done 

[madmax]

Oh dear!!!

i now need a new offside alloy hub carrier for my ‘82 Turbo 

I cut through the split in the insert and then cut with a hacksaw another split at the opposite side. 

I then tried to crush the steel sleeve with molegrips but it deformed into an oval and BUST MY BOTTOM LUG or at least blew out what was surrounding the sleeve. 

I’m told a weld repair may still be possible but if anyone knows of an alternative solution or the whereabouts of a replacement unit I’d be grateful. 

I have of course tried Lotus Bits and SJ

Thanks

[TAR]

not sure if this is the correct side for you?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Esprit-OS-Rear-Hub-/333619999800?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

or here: https://www.thelotuscentreonline.co.uk/Rear-Hub-Carrier-LH

🙂

[POD2100]

I was more fortunate, after cutting a slot on the opposite side and using a vice to squash the sleeve, plenty of Plus Gas and I managed to shift it.

The other side just wound out using one of the old bolts.

My issue was the first one I tried to do in situ rather than just biting the bullet as I did with the other side.

Thanks for the advice Gary.

Simon I feel your pain hope you can get it repaired if you can't find a replacement.

 

 

[jonwat]

Why is everyone removing their split spacers? I'd had have it down as a non wearing part & unless it's badly  corroded was good to leave in place.

[fjmuurling]

The split spacer is there in order to avoid that the two lugs of the hub carrier are not pulled toghether when tightening the lower link stud.

[ekwan]

2 hours ago, jonwat said:

Why is everyone removing their split spacers? I'd had have it down as a non wearing part & unless it's badly  corroded was good to leave in place.

You would definitely need to remove that to renew the lower link bush. I know I’d be dreading the job on a 36 year old car.

Edited August 30, 2020 by ekwan

[Chillidoggy]

By those photos, it looks as though it was already cracked.

I’m told PNM are able to repair them. Give Pete a call.

[madmax]

It was already cracked which I noticed to

my horror when I took the wheel off to refresh the suspension. 

PNM appear confident they can effect a repair so hopefully they can

[jonwat]

3 hours ago, ekwan said:

You would definitely need to remove that to renew the lower link bush. I know I’d be dreading the job on a 36 year old car.

No, the bush is in the rear link which has been removed.

[Sparky]

Ummmm?

[andydclements]

2 hours ago, jonwat said:

No, the bush is in the rear link which has been removed.

@jonwat yes the bush is in the lower link, but the point that I believe @ekwan was making is that the bushes all have minor variances, the sliding split spacer is designed to accommodate such variances without the need of shims etc. Since they are generally seized to the ali casting, they have to be un-seized which is generally done by the old one being removed and a new one put in it's place, but if t could be removed in a non-destructive manner then it could be re-used.

[jonwat]

OK, I see your point of the sliding split spacer but is it really worth risking breaking an almost irreplaceable hub because the new bush may be a couple of thousands of an inch different in size to the old one?

Does the manual state the split spacer must also  be replaced whenever the bush is?

[CHANGES]

49 minutes ago, jonwat said:

OK, I see your point of the sliding split spacer but is it really worth risking breaking an almost irreplaceable hub because the new bush may be a couple of thousands of an inch different in size to the old one?

Does the manual state the split spacer must also  be replaced whenever the bush is?

If the split spacer collar can not slide , but close fit ,then when torqued up the chances are the alloy hub will still be put under slight but constant stress..  It is not designed to function that way and over time can crack from the extra shock loads uncured during use..  Then you will have broke a almost replaceable hub , purely for the lack of fitting a penny part and not doing what is required to do the job correctly..   Sorry to be a killjoy but one of the biggest pains i experience when working on customers Esprit, is short cut maintenance or repair, 'Better known as the Bodge'  ,  These are always a pain to fix and in most cases could have been avoided with just a bit of extra time and care.  If it is beyond the DIY scope then contract out to someone conversant in what is needed , It could work out cheaper in the long run ... 

I have two of these hubs to do on 88 Esprit . Not sure they have ever been done before  .. I have no illusions of what is involved and how long it will take ..  It is always advisable to replace any part that is worn or seized, if the split spacer collar wont release easy , then follow procedures , using one of a few extraction methods and replace. Its far more satisfying knowing it is all done correct..  Just leaving a seized penny part in place because its hard to do , is a very poor way to maintain a super car .. 

Rant over....  There was nothing personal meant to anyone in this post , just trying to get a point over ..            

[Sparky]

1 hour ago, jonwat said:

Does the manual state the split spacer must also  be replaced whenever the bush is?

I don't believe it's expressly stated but in my book, replacement of this very cheap component is a no-brainer.

[ekwan]

41 minutes ago, Sparky said:

I don't believe it's expressly stated but in my book, replacement of this very cheap component is a no-brainer.

I have no chance to look at the ones on my car as I am trapped, unable to travel home due to the COVID situation. I already the split spaces, link arm bushes, new stud, lock nuts for the job. I suppose the corrosion might probably as a result of electrolytic reaction between dissimilar metals etc. I am thinking of slathering a whole bottle of Permatex 81343 on all the components during the assembly process.

[Lotusfab]

17 hours ago, madmax said:

It was already cracked which I noticed to

my horror when I took the wheel off to refresh the suspension. 

PNM appear confident they can effect a repair so hopefully they can

Yep Pete at PNM has repaired lots. He’s the number one go to for these sorts of repair.

[jonwat]

5 hours ago, CHANGES said:

If the split spacer collar can not slide , but close fit ,then when torqued up the chances are the alloy hub will still be put under slight but constant stress..  It is not designed to function that way and over time can crack from the extra shock loads uncured during use..  Then you will have broke a almost replaceable hub , purely for the lack of fitting a penny part and not doing what is required to do the job correctly..   

I see your point & agree you're correct. My point was that the DIYers more often than not end up damaging the hub & we know from your "Oops, crash bang, repair" thread that the professionals are very often as bad. 

[snowrx]

Are these split collars available in a less reactive material? I would think axially it only has to hold enough tension to keep the shock nut tight, and radially it's mostly contained in the hub, bearing loads similar to those handled by the rubber bush. I'm guessing stainless steel would still react with aluminium, but bronze or something more exotic? Easy enough to turn one up on a lathe if one could spec a material.

[madmax]

Just in case anyone thinks I went at this like a bull in a china shop, I didn’t. 

The hub was already cracked to my huge disappointment when I took the wheel off to start a suspension refresh. The previous owner says he had no knowledge of it and various people have told me these steel sleeves often break or split the alloy  TVR also suffer the same fate  

Having succcessfully dealt with a nearside rebuild and conscious of the rarity and delicate nature of the alloy hub carriers, I have never been more careful. 

Sadly, with such a split already in the lug, I was on Dangerous ground and despite my gentlest coaxing, using copious amounts of easing fluid and gentle heat, even though I double split the sleeve, it went oval on crushing with molegrips and really gently, and softly, and annoyingly, broke into the bits you see. 

With that exact science known as hindsight I now wish I’d left it to Pete at PNM to try his best to remove the sleeve as it would have needed to come out to weld the pre existing crack. Now the crack is far worse and potentially irreparable

These things can be challenging sometimes.  

[Sparky]

Simon, fully understood, and I sympathise!  The state of that meant you were doomed to failure from the outset!  Nice try though.  One could see from the photos that it was already buggered.

[CHANGES]

14 minutes ago, Sparky said:

Simon, fully understood, and I sympathise!  The state of that meant you were doomed to failure from the outset!  Nice try though.  One could see from the photos that it was already buggered.

I concur,  I think you were flogging a dead horse with that .. I am sure it will all turn out for the better when completed ..