Coronavirus

[sailorbob]

There appears to be a shortage according to this article https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/nhs-england-set-to-stand-down-multiple-mass-vaccination-centres-in-april/

I guess whether you consider this to be a shortage depends on your point of view; have the manufacturers delivered in accordance with their agreements or has the vaccination programme been too ambitious in the the numbers expected to be vaccinated by a certain date?

[SFO]

Shortage in the sense that we have to go slower, yes.

Shortage in the sense we can't do 2nd doses on time, no.

[Barrykearley]

Imagine the shortage we would have had we still been an eu member state and handcuffed by the mighty commission 

[910Esprit]

Tsk Tsk Barry - Please can you remember the rules and keep Brexit related comment to bad news only (Oh, I almost forgot, the UK's Vaccine programme is nothing to do with Brexit)

[Barrykearley]

https://amp.ft.com/content/28158bed-5f07-4504-9a00-2f3d8f7519df
 

if true I do hope this does irreparable damage to the eu 

[ChrisJ]

Behind the FT paywall

However search for the title "EU warns ‘zero’ jabs shipped to UK until AstraZeneca meets bloc’s targets" gets you the link, which when clicked has exactly the same URL as Barry's link above which is readable - not sure how that works

[Colin P]

4 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

https://amp.ft.com/content/28158bed-5f07-4504-9a00-2f3d8f7519df
 

if true I do hope this does irreparable damage to the eu 

We do need to remember that his is, again, a single politician spouting his mouth off. Imagine the position we'd be in if the EU determined strategy on what came out of Nigel Farage.

But, if this is true, then surely the appropriate response should be:

- Unlike any other country/company the UK/AZ funded this vaccine and has made it available worldwide at cost

- The payback of this is that those who funded it get priority and this is contracted

- Unlike the EU we do not want to risk/hinder the worldwide fight against this disease

- Therefore until such a position is rescinded we shall transfer 100% of capacity at these plants to export to COVAX nations. We shall also rescind any and all permissions for third party manufacture that is to be exported to the EU

- We will not allow the EU to benefit from these immoral and prejudicial tactics

[SFO]

18 minutes ago, Colin P said:

We do need to remember that his is, again, a single politician spouting his mouth off. Imagine the position we'd be in if the EU determined strategy on what came out of Nigel Farage.

But he is the EU's Internal Market Commissioner, and a member of Von der Lying's cabinet. Accordingly, he represents the European Commission. Note that he is French, and no doubt a close mate of President Moron, who put him there. His words overflow with envy and jealousy.

Surprisingly, we haven't heard much from Von der Lying recently.

 

23 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Imagine the shortage we would have had we still been an eu member state and handcuffed by the mighty commission 

We probably would not have participated in the EU vaccine scheme - it wasn't compulsory, even though all 27 states went along with it - even if we were still a member state. 

Ironically, if we were still a member state and we went our own way on vaccines, we would be in a better position as Von der Lying's export bans etc would not work against us.

[Colin P]

17 minutes ago, SFO said:

But he is the EU's Internal Market Commissioner, and a member of Von der Lying's cabinet. Accordingly, he represents the European Commission. Note that he is French, and no doubt a close mate of President Moron, who put him there. His words overflow with envy and jealousy.

Agreed, but how much is official, how much is posturing etc? The point I was making was simply that I'd take it with at least a little pinch of salt, until it becomes official policy. 

20 minutes ago, SFO said:

We probably would not have participated in the EU vaccine scheme - it wasn't compulsory, even though all 27 states went along with it - even if we were still a member state. 

I may well be wrong here, but is there not a prohibition from negotiating with the companies that the EU are negotiating with?

Pretty sure that were we still an EU member then, regardless, they'd be putting an even greater claim on the AZ vaccines, as being an EU vaccine, not a British one, not least quoting free trade and demanding supplies from the British production facilities as well.

[PaulCP]

This is just the same as during the Brexit negotiations, too many EU politicians (generally French) with loose mouths who believe that they need to jump in to try to cause mischief. 
The loose talk does seem to have become worse since von der Lying took over though, just shows she has no control and is being undermined all of the time by those she should be managing.
 

@Colin Pis correct, until it is announced as official policy there’s no point getting excited about it. 

[Chillidoggy]

Just had a text to book my second jab, so it looks like the problems I mentioned earlier about my GP's surgery software being suspect has been rectified. And it will be the AstraZenica variant, so they must be fairly confident of the supply chain. The venue has now moved from a small church hall, to a huge SAGA call-centre building with a much higher capacity.

 

The EU's performance in all of this is a disgrace, and it looks as though in M. Breton, they're busy cultivating their very own model of our Nigel. 

[SFO]

4 hours ago, Colin P said:

I may well be wrong here, but is there not a prohibition from negotiating with the companies that the EU are negotiating with?

Pretty sure that were we still an EU member then, regardless, they'd be putting an even greater claim on the AZ vaccines, as being an EU vaccine, not a British one, not least quoting free trade and demanding supplies from the British production facilities as well.

Yes, if a member state joins the scheme, it must not negotiate separately. But joining the scheme was not compulsory. It's just that all 27 fell into line, because the British voice of reason and the bloody minded British weren't there to set them straight and provide the waverers with some backbone.

if we were still a member state, Ursula might or might not behave better but Von der Lying cannot enforce any export ban (at the EU level) against the UK, as the Article of the Treaty from which legal authority for an export ban is derived, is for exports out of the EU, not within the EU. 

Of course, each member state can still impose its own export bans to other member states, as evidenced by the PPE crisis last year. Luckily, since no vaccines are made in France, President Moron would have had no vaccine exports to ban.

[SFO]

3 hours ago, PaulCP said:

This is just the same as during the Brexit negotiations, too many EU politicians (generally French) with loose mouths who believe that they need to jump in to try to cause mischief. 
The loose talk does seem to have become worse since von der Lying took over though, just shows she has no control and is being undermined all of the time by those she should be managing.
 

@Colin Pis correct, until it is announced as official policy there’s no point getting excited about it. 

Agree that he is not announcing or stating EU policy. But this particular French politician holds office as a Commissioner in European Commission, with more sway and power than a loudmouth French politician.

[PaulCP]

@SFO it’s not the first time this particular person has shouted from his soap box though. He is responsible for delivering the EU vaccine rollout so is probably becoming frustrated about him too failing to deliver!

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-commission-thierry-breton-aims-to-reset-eu-vaccine-narrative-coronavirus/

If the EU do place a ban on exports of the Pfizer vaccine to the U.K. then we retaliate by blocking export of a particular ingredient going to the EU for use in the Pfizer production process, although by doing so the U.K. is dragging itself down to the same level as the lowlifes that are the EU Commission. This is what Pfizer are scared of

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/yorkshire-chemicals-firm-could-hold-20219927

[Colin P]

52 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

 

If the EU do place a ban on exports of the Pfizer vaccine to the U.K. then we retaliate by blocking export of a particular ingredient going to the EU for use in the Pfizer production process, although by doing so the U.K. is dragging itself down to the same level as the lowlifes that are the EU Commission. This is what Pfizer are scared of

 

The EU seem to have stopped talking about banning Pfizer export. The rhetoric I’ve seen is now is restricted to AZ.
 

IMHO this is because they have now realised their reliance on the U.K. supply of this core ingredient and also the broader issues of effectively attacking another nation so obviously. 
 

 So instead, simply go for AZ and then they can try and spin this as merely taking action on a company that is failing to meet its contractual obligations to the EU and “nothing to do with the U.K. at all” so any restriction of the Pfizer ingredients would be an “unprovoked and unwarranted action by the U.K. “. 
 

That is where I think they are going anyway. Just my take on it. 

[PaulCP]

21 minutes ago, Colin P said:

 So instead, simply go for AZ and then they can try and spin this as merely taking action on a company that is failing to meet its contractual obligations to the EU

Using “Best reasonable efforts” does not equate to a contractual obligation though 

Only a fool would sign a supply contract with such a clause. I’m no lawyer but I’ve been involved in enough contracts to recognise the difference. One person’s interpretation will differ from another’s 

The only way out of this is for the full contract to be disclosed to the world.

[Colin P]

2 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

Using “Best reasonable efforts” does not equate to a contractual obligation though 

 

I get this,  but the EU refuse to acknowledge it and even if they did don’t accept the U.K. contract as taking precedence so will still suggest that whatever is produced gets shared. I was calling what I think the EU position will be, so didn’t mention it as they won’t. 

[SFO]

The contract that the EU has with AZ was published. It was clear that AZ never promised to deliver X doses by Y dates, AZ only promised to try very hard.

Don't forget that AZ is not making a profit on its vaccine unlike the billions that others like Pfizer are raking in. There is no reason for AZ to oversell its production capacity. 

It is also wrong to think that the UK and the EU have the same contracts. The UK taxpayer put up £84 million of risk capital, ordered early, provided technical expertise and as a result has priority access. Risk and reward. EU only ordered late, at the cheapest price. 

EU is victimising AZ for EU's own incompetence and cheap skate procurement. If EU really has as strong a case for the doses that it loudly and constantly says it has, the simpler and faster way to deal with it would be to get a Belgian Court order - as the EU/AZ agreement is governed by Belgian law - forcing AZ to deliver those missing or delayed doses, rather than the mostly ineffective PR war and export bans etc. Truth is, EU has no legal basis for any claim against AZ. 

The EU has blocked the shipment of 250,000 doses of AZ to Australia. And Italian authorities raided a factory in Italy to look for "secret doses" allegedly being kept for the UK, only to find that they were in fact destined for the EU and other developing countries. At no time has the EU uncovered any wrongdoing by AZ, despite Ursula, Macron, Merkel and others loudly complaining that AZ has done so.

Under general contract law (essentially the same in Belgian and English law):

(a) - you "shall/must" is an absolute obligation to do something; failure means you are in breach of contract
(b) - you "will use reasonable best efforts" means you must try very hard to do something; if you do try very hard, and yet you fail, that is not a breach of contract 

(b) is what the EU managed to agree re:delivery timescales, and is the reason why the European Commission has not gone to Belgian courts to force AZ to deliver on time using UK production; AZ is not in breach of contract because it has used "reasonable best efforts". Instead, EU has used export controls and media manipulation to try to force AZ to do something it has no contractual obligation to do.

Although it is not known what the terms of the UK's contract are, it is, IMO (as a commercial lawyer with decades of experience in multi million pound national and international commercial transactions) likely that UK also has (b) but beefed up so that UK has first refusal or priority over the vaccines that are produced. AZ would never have committed (ie (a)) to delivery of X doses by Y date; much too risky bearing in mind the vast uncertainty due to whole new factory, new type of production process, and new line of business. 

UK is entitled to special treatment not because it negotiated better terms, but because UK funded the development of the vaccine, provided technical and scientific expertise AZ to help set up production and provided a large part of the risk capital needed to produce the vaccine - turns out that we paid to set up the factory in Holland currently under negotiation; the Dutch Government was offered the opportunity to participate, but chose not to. All of the above was against the background of no assurance that the vaccine would actually work. In contrast, the EU merely ordered the AZ vaccine, and ordered it late.

Of course, none of this is mentioned by the EC President, Merkel, Macron or other Eurocrats because it would expose the EU's feeble efforts in thinking ahead, taking sensible bets and acting quickly.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

You gotta laugh at the Germans. First their boffins decide that the AZ vaccine is only safe for administering to under 65s, then they have a 3 day pause for a review and declare it safe for all and now they say it’s only safe for over 60s. All the time moaning that they’re not getting enough AZ vaccines and about half their population don’t want it now anyway.

Oh and their football team lost a World Cup qualifier at home to North Macedonia.

[Barrykearley]

What really makes me wonder is why the pressure isn’t on Pfizer to deliver significant doses into the EU. Maybe it’s because it’s significantly more expensive 🤔

[PaulCP]

Another example of the EU’s incompetent approach to vaccine planning!

The attachment below, from a report from the Telegraph, may not come out very clear but if true, which it appears to be given an EU official has confirmed the contents,  the U.K. should consider its options re this plant should the EU prevent any of its production coming to the U.K.

[SFO]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

What really makes me wonder is why the pressure isn’t on Pfizer to deliver significant doses into the EU. Maybe it’s because it’s significantly more expensive 🤔

It's because Pfizer is delivering the quantities ordered by EU on time. 

[SFO]

2 hours ago, PaulCP said:

"We have checked for any EU funding possibly given to Halix under EU financial instruments but could not identify any support. This does not prejudge any national funding given by member states."

we never contributed anything but we want the benefits anyway .. this is known as daylight robbery

[Barrykearley]

54 minutes ago, SFO said:

It's because Pfizer is delivering the quantities ordered by EU on time. 

Maybe adding a number to that would contextualise it.

The EU are behaving in a vile manner and blaming a company for their utter failure to act in a timely manner to protect citizens. 
 

I can’t even be bothered to look up the EU Pfizer order / delivery numbers - it’s so bloody obvious what the EU clowns are playing at.

[USAndretti42]

Have the EU offered to do anything to help AstraZeneca to meet demand or have they just bullied them?