Coronavirus

[SFO]

Javid totally lost credibility when he said we "could" have 1 million cases day by month end ... just like I could win the lottery by month end by spending £1 at each draw

[electro_boy]

@SFO I don't understand why Javid lost credibility over that statement?

[Barrykearley]

Could is a bit subjective - a guess - more uncertainty - maybe inciting fear.

President Putin has been more credible over this matter by stating this variant could be nature’s vaccine.

still yet to have a single reported death from omnicron.

[SFO]

3 hours ago, electro_boy said:

@SFO I don't understand why Javid lost credibility over that statement?

because it was scare mongering or trying to justify the unjustifiable ..

IMO, it is all part of the effort to divert attention from party gate

bit like Ferguson stating in early July that Freedom Day would definitely lead to at least 100,000 cases a day for weeks, and that 200,000 was very likely. In the event, it never went above 55,000.

21 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

still yet to have a single reported death from omnicron anywhere in the world

Not that anyone in the media, Government, opposition or doom mongering scientists have mentioned this 

Edited December 10, 2021 by SFO

[gregs24]

21 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

As of 24 hours ago - there has not been one single death of Covid due to the Omnicron variant in the 38 countries it has been detected in.

That’s not stopped the Scottish witch suggesting tonight that people should reconsider their xmas gathering plans. 

Hopefully good news but a bit early to say as deaths lag cases by weeks rather than days.

I would seriously reconsider Christmas gatherings if you are not vaccinated, not boosted or have very vulnerable relatives. At the very least asking everybody to do a lateral flow would make a lot of sense. In another 2 weeks 'omicron' looks like it will have completely out competed 'delta' (it only took 3 weeks in SA) and a Happy Christmas could be followed by a very miserable New Year for some people!

Edited December 10, 2021 by gregs24

[gregs24]

3 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Could is a bit subjective - a guess - more uncertainty - maybe inciting fear.

President Putin has been more credible over this matter by stating this variant could be nature’s vaccine.

still yet to have a single reported death from omnicron.

If Putin's comments make him more credible to you then that is a serious worry! 'Natures Vaccine' isn't how I would describe a rapidly spreading new strain. We might be lucky and it be less pathogenic but we might not, which doesn't bare thinking about in some countries. And don't forget those countries will be the breeding ground for new strains for the future.

As regards future case numbers, Javid said it could reach a million cases of 'omicron' (total) by the end of December, NOT 1 million a day. This has not been accurately reported in all press sources.

[exeterjeep]

Not the best of news.... 

Two vaccine doses don't stop you catching Omicron......

The concern since the heavily mutated Omicron variant first emerged was that it would make vaccines less effective.

Scientists analysed data from 581 Omicron cases and thousands of Delta cases to calculate how effective the vaccines were against the new variant.

It showed a dramatic drop in effectiveness for the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine and a significant drop off for two doses of Pfizer.

However, the third dose increased the protection against getting Covid symptoms to between 70 and 75%.

[Barrykearley]

41 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

I would seriously reconsider Christmas gatherings if you are not vaccinated

Ah ok - so you believe the bbc and government hype then.

Interestingly there was a chap on Jeremy vine today. https://www.reading.ac.uk/biologicalsciences/about/staff/s-r-clarke.aspx
 

he was absolutely clear about the fact if you are vaccinated your risk of hospitalisation is reduced - not eliminated - and that 2/3 of admissions into hospitals currently are vaccinated people. That part has since been cut on the podcast.

 

vaccinated or not - frankly there is still a risk of death. Maybe you should never leave the house again to avoid being hit by lightening, run over or murdered.

[andydclements]

The problem is Barry that when somebody states something like "most cases hospitalised are those who are vaccinated" some people don't then take into account vaccination rates, and mistakenly read it that you're more likely to be hospitalised because you're vaccinated.

If it was 90& of people vaccinated (think it's lower than that, so this are just hypothetical numbers) and it was a 25% Vs 75% split of most being vaccinated people, then you'd still be looking at much lower chance of being hospitalised if vaccinated. The problem is that certain people understand that but lie and say it's not so, others don't understand it and believe those who lie.

[gregs24]

7 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Ah ok - so you believe the bbc and government hype then.

Interestingly there was a chap on Jeremy vine today. https://www.reading.ac.uk/biologicalsciences/about/staff/s-r-clarke.aspx
 

he was absolutely clear about the fact if you are vaccinated your risk of hospitalisation is reduced - not eliminated - and that 2/3 of admissions into hospitals currently are vaccinated people. That part has since been cut on the podcast.

 

vaccinated or not - frankly there is still a risk of death. Maybe you should never leave the house again to avoid being hit by lightening, run over or murdered.

I don't get my information from the media or government

A common misunderstanding is that if vaccinated people are in hospital then the vaccine isn't working. This is not correct. If the country had 100% of the population vaccinated 100% of hospital admissions would be vaccinated! The difference is the number of vaccinated people in hospital is much lower because the vaccine is very effective at preventing that. That is why we currently have around 700 admissions per day at the moment rather than the 4000 per day with similar case numbers pre vaccination. The booster is also very effective at preventing 'omicron' it seems (75% protection) - much better than just 2 doses.

Clearly however there is still a risk of death, and this is higher with 'omicron' if you are not vaccinated, not boosted or 'at risk'. 

There is no 'hype' over this. It is clear from what has happened in SA how well 'omicron' can spread. We can only hope that the initial data is correct on the vaccine efficacy and that hospitalisations don't rise substantially. 

'vaccinated or not - frankly there is still a risk of death' - there is, BUT a much lower risk. Your compared risk factors of murder and lightning strike are hardly realistic compared to COVID. 

Complaining about hype is one thing - ignoring it is entirely the opposite.

 

27 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

Not the best of news.... 

Two vaccine doses don't stop you catching Omicron......

The concern since the heavily mutated Omicron variant first emerged was that it would make vaccines less effective.

Scientists analysed data from 581 Omicron cases and thousands of Delta cases to calculate how effective the vaccines were against the new variant.

It showed a dramatic drop in effectiveness for the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine and a significant drop off for two doses of Pfizer.

However, the third dose increased the protection against getting Covid symptoms to between 70 and 75%.

It could be a LOT worse however!

[eeyoreish]

I do like listening to Radio 2 while I work but 2 hours of Jeremy Vine can be a bit of a downside. In what feels to me to be a repeat of the run up to last Christmas, just like last year every Covid story they cover seems to be tailored towards instilling fear in people or making them feel guilty about even considering seeing their family at Christmas. 

Anyway, today's Covid hour was followed by a story about a school fence that accidentally got electrified and apparently 'glowed in the dark'. Jeremy then invited listeners to call in with their stories of 'unexpected items suddenly becoming electrified'. That did make me wonder more generally about his credibility and whether some of the stuff he covers is real 'news'...🤨

Edited December 10, 2021 by eeyoreish

[exeterjeep]

3 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

I don't get my information from the media or government

A common misunderstanding is that if vaccinated people are in hospital then the vaccine isn't working. This is not correct. If the country had 100% of the population vaccinated 100% of hospital admissions would be vaccinated! The difference is the number of vaccinated people in hospital is much lower because the vaccine is very effective at preventing that. That is why we currently have around 700 admissions per day at the moment rather than the 4000 per day with similar case numbers pre vaccination. The booster is also very effective at preventing 'omicron' it seems (75% protection) - much better than just 2 doses.

Clearly however there is still a risk of death, and this is higher with 'omicron' if you are not vaccinated, not boosted or 'at risk'. 

There is no 'hype' over this. It is clear from what has happened in SA how well 'omicron' can spread. We can only hope that the initial data is correct on the vaccine efficacy and that hospitalisations don't rise substantially. 

'vaccinated or not - frankly there is still a risk of death' - there is, BUT a much lower risk. Your compared risk factors of murder and lightning strike are hardly realistic compared to COVID. 

Complaining about hype is one thing - ignoring it is entirely the opposite.

 

It could be a LOT worse however!

Anyone remember the tv series the survivors 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors_(1975_TV_series) really depressing.

 

[Barrykearley]

We are in a position where as a human race we are being scared to death by the scientists, media and governments. People are being pitted against each other in a vaccinated or unvaccinated responsibly war. Human interactions are being skewed ridiculously over what? Something which may cause a serious illness - where most only have mild symptoms.

The bigger picture and far more concerning issue is the cancers that are not being diagnosed, heart attacks and strokes not being dealt with in a timely manner due to wards having been closed due to covid. The reason A&E departments are overflowing is because GPs simply aren’t delivering the service they were 15 years ago despite being paid considerably more and wards which A&E feed patients into are closed due to covid. 

[100th_Idiot]

7 hours ago, electro_boy said:

@SFO I don't understand why Javid lost credibility over that statement?

Indeed. You need credibility in the first place to lose it.

[Barrykearley]

3 minutes ago, eeyoreish said:

Jeremy then invited listeners to call in with their stories of 'unexpected items suddenly becoming electrified'.

Happy to help with that 🤣 - I can make some nice comfy chairs for partners - nice wee niche market me thinks

[gregs24]

53 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

Anyone remember the tv series the survivors 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors_(1975_TV_series) really depressing.

 

I loved that programme - although it is a bit wooden if you re-watch it

52 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

We are in a position where as a human race we are being scared to death by the scientists, media and governments. People are being pitted against each other in a vaccinated or unvaccinated responsibly war. Human interactions are being skewed ridiculously over what? Something which may cause a serious illness - where most only have mild symptoms.

The bigger picture and far more concerning issue is the cancers that are not being diagnosed, heart attacks and strokes not being dealt with in a timely manner due to wards having been closed due to covid. The reason A&E departments are overflowing is because GPs simply aren’t delivering the service they were 15 years ago despite being paid considerably more and wards which A&E feed patients into are closed due to covid. 

Exactly why the pandemic has to be controlled! 

You may be scared to death, but that is not what the scientists are doing. The statistics on COVID illness severity/ deaths / hospitalisations and long COVID are all there - I'm afraid belittling COVID is never going to improve your chances of being understood. Too many dead people, too many chronically ill people.

[eeyoreish]

I think for me (and I might have said it before here) it’s just about context. I don’t disagree for a moment that Covid is real and that it’s significant risk for some people but there are lots of other things killing people in the world and I think it would be useful if the media occasionally put the Covid figures in context against things like cancer, flu, heart disease etc.

If the Covid figures are sufficiently scary in context, it might help to convince the doubters and anti vaxxers to get jabbed. Conversely, if ‘other’ illnesses mortality rates are similar it would help to at least inform some debate about ‘proportionate’ restrictions as the government refer to them.

I’m sure that data is all out there somewhere but I haven’t myself seen it used or presented to a wider audience by any mainstream media yet.

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, gregs24 said:

Exactly why the pandemic has to be controlled! 

The element of my post you turned bold you could do with talking to folks whom work within the healthcare system on the front line. I know many - and the picture is the same - they are all worried about the folks whom will be suffering because of the response to covid.

1 hour ago, gregs24 said:

You may be scared to death

I can just crack on frankly - I’ve had my jabs - something is gonna knock me off my perch at some point. I could die of a massive heart attack next week - no point wasting life - it’s for living.

[PaulCP]

3 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

Not the best of news.... 

Two vaccine doses don't stop you catching Omicron......

 

Two vaccine doses never stopped you getting Covid, full stop. 
It just reduces your chances of becoming seriously ill 

Fcking media again trying to sensationalise something as new news 

[Barrykearley]

Daisy has just finished another 4 hour stint of jabbing - 150 people done today.

[thebartman]

4 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

I can make some nice comfy chairs

Fab !

I need 2x in red leather for my ‘85 TE - I will supply frames.

Sooooo Christmas spirited 

❤️

[gregs24]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

The element of my post you turned bold you could do with talking to folks whom work within the healthcare system on the front line. I know many - and the picture is the same - they are all worried about the folks whom will be suffering because of the response to covid.

I can just crack on frankly - I’ve had my jabs - something is gonna knock me off my perch at some point. I could die of a massive heart attack next week - no point wasting life - it’s for living.

I have and do on a regular basis. Covid is occupying far too much time because of those not taking appropriate precautions, whether that is lack of vaccination or other activities. Covid is the problem not an excuse.

2 hours ago, PaulCP said:

Two vaccine doses never stopped you getting Covid, full stop. 
It just reduces your chances of becoming seriously ill 

Fcking media again trying to sensationalise something as new news 

I think the reporting was correct. The point they were making is that the booster dose does provide significant protection

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Daisy has just finished another 4 hour stint of jabbing - 150 people done today.

Booster uptake seems to be very good I'm pleased to say. At my local site they had to stop 'walk ins' because they were overwhelmed

[thebartman]

So my local NHS provider has texted me saying I can’t have flu/COVID booster due to lack of (human) resources. 
Too much demand , and no available Locums to take up the slack.

• where was demand created from
• who gets first on the list

so much for plan B. So well  thought out, great transition from phase I to phase II etc.

so glad these muppets are in charge . Without their guidance I’d be stranded in life.

Bring on next year’s Xmas party 🎉 

[SFO]

No one with Omnicron has yet to be admitted to hospital 

the UKHSA report that talks about 1 million Omnicron cases by year end and reduction in vaccine effectiveness but notes:

"Whilst there are insufficient data to quantify either vaccine effectiveness or risk of reinfection in the UK exactly,"

"These early estimates should be treated with caution"

So, let's panic first and worry about the facts later

[Barrykearley]

10 hours ago, gregs24 said:

Covid is occupying far too much time because of those not taking appropriate precautions

Frankly that’s ignoring the point and blaming the public. Exactly what the bbc do and the government is doing - with that logic you are better off simply blaming the Chinese.

This is being allowed to become an all encompassing distraction for the nhs and services for anything other than covid seem to be kicked into the long grass. 

This morning the bbc report again - 60% plus are double vaccinated in hospitals - and most of those are old age apparently. Again how long will it be before those with 5 jabs blame those who’ve only had 4.

Enough is enough - we need to start living before we are dead. Feel free to post average age of death in the uk and average age of covid death in the uk.