Coronavirus

[C8RKH]

4 hours ago, SFO said:

HMRC needs to catch a few of the furlough and loan fraudsters in a blaze of publicity, then offer an amnesty provided they cough up. And then prosecute all over again. These fcukers must be taught a lesson. 

rewards should be offered to encourage employees and others to report furlough and loans abuse 

To be fair, some companies don't need to be caught. Halfords are handing back their furlough £10m due to the boom in cycle sales keeping them going.

At last count more than £215m of furlough cash has been paid back by businesses. Not all businesses are bad. But some of the most selfish bastards are small companies (basically, greedy people) - and some are not. Some large companies are refusing to payback furlough but paying out dividends to shareholders. Some are not. Just to be balanced.

[Barrykearley]

Anyone fancy a trip to China ?
 

https://mol.im/a/9324897?fbclid=IwAR3Qme9a45Zpmsh9PYkdcLdQ8axF6cgW1H-ZiY_wJ7Q6I3fv9qIkpqxZwHg

[thebartman]

I think I prefer lockdown ....

[Barrykearley]

I’m sure they can arrange locks if that’s what floats yer boat.

[mayevora]

The bounce back loans were not as straightforward to apply for as I was expecting. This took about 4 weeks to go through and a few on hold for 30 minutes telephone calls to speed up/chase up. If I can restart 12th April it will be a huge relief after not working 8 of the last 13 months. 
My tax will go up considerably next year as the new Corporation Tax rate kicks in. Not good for any Business but I can appreciate why it’s had to happen.

[Bibs]

As I understand it, the higher rate is only for companies that show a profit in excess of £50k pa. 

[mayevora]

Bottom line is customers will end up paying it as prices will need to be increased to cover that additional increase.

[Painterdave]

4 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Anyone fancy a trip to China ?
 

https://mol.im/a/9324897?fbclid=IwAR3Qme9a45Zpmsh9PYkdcLdQ8axF6cgW1H-ZiY_wJ7Q6I3fv9qIkpqxZwHg

Who's got them black gloves

[thebartman]

Headline lost in translation ?

China-expands-anal-swab-testing

😨

[Bibs]

Took me reading a few news websites to find yesterdays covid deaths, it's not really news anymore. 82. 

The current infection levels were I live in Tonbridge & Malling is 35 per 100,000.

0.035%.  

[Barrykearley]

Try this news.

the average age of covid death is higher than the average age of death in the uk.

pretty much sums up the media hype id say. 

[exeterjeep]

5 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Took me reading a few news websites to find yesterdays covid deaths, it's not really news anymore. 82. 

The figures for yesterday were only recently released due to processing problems .

So things are getting better around the country at last.

[Kevin Wheeler]

22 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Took me reading a few news websites to find yesterdays covid deaths, it's not really news anymore. 82. 

The current infection levels were I live in Tonbridge & Malling is 35 per 100,000.

0.035%.  

Try this website.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[USAndretti42]

10 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Try this news.

the average age of covid death is higher than the average age of death in the uk.

pretty much sums up the media hype id say. 

Focussing on the deaths is the wrong thing.  Remember, the constant message has been to protect the NHS.  This means the restrictions were designed to limit how many infected peope needed admitting to hospital.

However, if you kill off those over the average dying age, that average age will drop.  An average is made up of samples above and below it.

[exeterjeep]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Wheeler said:

Try this website.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

I go here each day to update a spreadsheet I have of daily cases and sadly deaths in devon/torbay/plymouth.

[Bibs]

12 minutes ago, Kevin Wheeler said:

Try this website.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Thanks, I know. I mentioned news websites to make the point in my post that it isn't really news anymore. Quite a few of the sites are removing their corona tabs now too. 

[thebartman]

And still reporting covid-included deaths, with +'ve test in last 28 days. Why? 

I still don't fully understand how a positive test 28 days ago, with 10 day isolation period still means I died from covid?

Where are the numbers indicating people that (unfortunately) died FROM covid and only covid?

13 hours ago, Bibs said:

Thanks, I know. I mentioned news websites to make the point in my post that it isn't really news anymore. Quite a few of the sites are removing their corona tabs now too. 

Yes @Bibs, and now the same outlets are wringing their hands about poor mental health, poverty, social inequality blah blah - where everything seems to be someone else's problem - no one seems to be able to be self supportive/self motivated and just to crack on.

Why are we waiting for the government to pay us to get excercise? What happened to personal responsibility ?

[andydclements]

The 10 days isolation period is irrelevant in respect of death resulting from COVID-19. The isolation is about trying to stop people from spreading the infection. 

The death with positive test within preceding 28 days was instigated as a measure, it's not precise but it was all about people that dies of a heart attack/ organ failure /pneumonia etc where such things were likely exacerbated by the person having (or having had) COVID-19.

[Bibs]

6 hours ago, thebartman said:

Where are the numbers indicating people that (unfortunately) died FROM covid and only covid?

 

On 21/02/2021 at 09:03, ChrisJ said:

Deaths due to COVID-19 – Interactive map - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

 

 

[thebartman]

Cheers @Bibs , missed the link 1st time round ...   after a page re-direct from the link to local areas, I downloaded the data 👍

[Bibs]

I do think that figures like that will one day soon question is this has been £400bn well spent. 

[thebartman]

Just looked at data - just over 100,000 covid main-cause deaths Mar '20 - Jan '21. Avg 10,000 per month.

Statistically - that's £4m each. (I know that's simplistic) 

What was the phrase ?

"Lies, Damn lies and statistics" ?

[andydclements]

The £400Bn isn't a spend per death, it's a spend per death that would / may have occurred had there not been the restrictions/ actions. I know those potential deaths will be impossible to simply calculate, but there will be /are predictions (I don't know but I guess the government must have them).

[Barrykearley]

7 hours ago, thebartman said:

Just looked at data - just over 100,000 covid main-cause deaths Mar '20 - Jan '21. Avg 10,000 per month.

You need to contextualise the death figures. If you look at death rate on the ONS - you will find 608k in 2020 vs 531k in 2019. So that’s 77k more than the previous year.

so the average simply isn’t what they are reporting - it’s just damn lies

[electro_boy]

7 hours ago, Bibs said:

I do think that figures like that will one day soon question is this has been £400bn well spent. 

Is that £400bn spent on literally anything COVID related eg heath services, track and trace, furlough etc etc ... ??

 

7 hours ago, thebartman said:

Statistically - that's £4m each. (I know that's simplistic) 

As per @andydclements comments,  I'm not sure you are looking at the correct statistic.   If a nation does well at reducing deaths then it's going to increase the cost per death as there are less deaths for amount of money spent.  I'm not saying the UK has done well just that a high cost per number of deaths could be considered a good thing. 

But there is the deeper question that is raised; How much is it really worth spending to keep people alive is it all worth it?  I literally don't have a clue how I would start rationalising where I think the bar should be set.

 

30 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

You need to contextualise the death figures. If you look at death rate on the ONS - you will find 608k in 2020 vs 531k in 2019. So that’s 77k more than the previous year.

so the average simply isn’t what they are reporting - it’s just damn lies

I think the government and other agencies have had a reasonable attempt at keeping the data as accurate as they can.  It isn't lies, its just how you've chosen to analyse and interpret the data.  

Thats the trick with statistics, its easy to calculate random stats based on the data and come to a conclusion but it takes knowledge and skill to understand what the correct statistics to calculate are and what conclusions they are really saying.  

You've assumed it's a zero sum equation when it might not be.  Have you factored in any trends in the number of deaths year on year eg they may be falling 10% each year, have you factored in people in general are not out and about and doing stuff they normally would and dramatically reducing probability of the deaths that would normally occur etc etc...  

So it's quite possible for there to be an extra 100K deaths accurately and truthfully reported due to COVID but only 77K extra deaths compared to the previous year.