Coronavirus

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Also on the 80% pay, looks like the self-employed might get shafted.

Even for employed people, you could have unfair cases. For example, a childless couple living together and both working could be earning £38,000 each. They would be entitled to 2 x £30,000 per year, so £60,000 for two people. Next door could be a family of 4, with one bread-winner earning £76,000. That family of 4 would receive £30,000 to share, so £2500 per month split 4 ways. Does the couple next door really need £5000 per month to live on during these dark times?

[Chillidoggy]

9 hours ago, MPx said:

My understanding of the strategy is that the Gov are only trying to slow the spread not stop it.  So they want a continuous stream of cases but at a low level that hospitals can cope with.  If the Fkwits self select at a low enough level then they'll form the steady stream of cases and the restrictions wont have to get more draconian, but if they've interbred too much and the numbers are too high then more restrictions will follow.  Not sure how they're calculating infection rates since they aren't testing and there seems to be a three week lag to deaths but they must be basing it on some sort of assumptions.  The odd part seems to be that as the measures work and the numbers drop they will ease some restrictions to put a few more of us in harms way, since ultimately the assumption seems to be that nearly all of us will have to get it.  Then as the rate ramps up again the restrictions will come back to slow it again.  And repeat til the end of the year or whenever we get working drugs/vaccine.  I'm persuaded this is a good strategy to save the most lives, but I'm not convinced saving the most lives at any cost is the best strategy...

My thoughts, entirely.

[gregs24]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

What do you guys think of the Government paying 80% of people’s February level wages to prevent them being laid-off? Is it tax free? Does it mean they can stay at home and still get paid up to £2500 per month, so potentially £30,000 per year? The cynic in me thinks this could be wildly abused. Rubbish or unnecessary employees could just be kept on because they’re only costing 20%. In fact it might encourage unscrupulous employers to put far more of their staff into this position, so that they only have to pay 20% of their usual wage bill. Add on rent/mortgage holidays, tax credits and interest free company loans and certain individuals could do very well out of this, thank you very much. It could take the art of sponging off the state and giving nothing back to a whole new level.

Any opinions?

As a business owner it is a lifeline for us - Can now sleep at night rather than worry about how to tell 100 staff they don't have a job. 

[SFO]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Interesting piece for the BBC of all places.

Coronavirus: Have UK experts over-egged deaths? - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

 

 

makes an excellent point that there isn’t data on whether CV19 is the main or minor cause of deaths being attributed to CV19

I wonder whether the Italian deaths recorded as CV19 deaths are purely on the basis that patient had CV19, or that CV19 was the actual cause of death

[tom kilner]

Cardiac arrest is the usual cause of death. Stresses to the body's systems bring this about.

[Bibs]

4 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

The cynic in me thinks this could be wildly abused.

I think it's going to be based on historic PAYE contributions so should be safe from abuse as the numbers can't be fiddled. 

. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

31 minutes ago, SFO said:

makes an excellent point that there isn’t data on whether CV19 is the main or minor cause of deaths being attributed to CV19

I wonder whether the Italian deaths recorded as CV19 deaths are purely on the basis that patient had CV19, or that CV19 was the actual cause of death

The Italian fatalities all had CV19. It was calculated that 99.2% of the first 2003 deaths had other illnesses too. I am sure that many of these would have died anyway, but CV19 would have added to the issues and accelerated the process no end due to respiratory difficulties.

[geartox]

Here in France, everything is closed except supermarkets. You need a self signed paper (yes self signed, don't ask) to justify your move and you can be checked by the police. Most of the people stay at home... at least for the moment.

It's clear for me we will not be able to keep people in their small apartments for weeks or months. That is the real problem for the next weeks. In Italy the peak has been postponed to around 10th April,  it's just an estimation. That means, in France and maybe in UK, we will have to wait until mid or end of April before to reach the peak ? 

Some people here seems to discover that the country is not able to produce anything by itself, everything has been relocated in foreigns countries. I am in the "Cassandra" category of people, I always see the bad part of the story. This reality is not new It's the trend from the last 40 years.
In 2011 France got a stock of 700 000 millions of FFP2 masks and about 1 billion of surgical masks. Now when we need that, we have nothing. Why ? Because the sovereignty question is out-of-date topic for 90% of the people. Maybe some people thought that "the market" will help them. LOL. Of course nobody is able to predict when this kind of event happens, but EVERYONE knows that it will happen. You know it's like the "too big to fail", it will never happen... and it happens.  I can't see in the futur, but I can see in the past. So now we have no plan, the communication of politics is just a joke and everyone now is opening his big mouth to give a lesson. Part of my job is to protect IT data. I don't wait that the fire starts in the datacenter to think about how to recover : everything is planned, double/triple checked and tested periodically... 

Regarding the UK, from my understanding, the strategy has changed after the report of the imperial college with the estimations of 400 000 deaths without confinement. 

For sure we have to learn something from that, but I don't think we will. 

The best for you and your family.

PS : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137039/French-border-guards-impound-trucks-filled-130-000-face-masks-bound-Britain.html . what a shame.

[red vtec]

A sobering article

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597

[pete]

3 hours ago, Bibs said:

I think it's going to be based on historic PAYE contributions so should be safe from abuse as the numbers can't be fiddled. 

. 

Thought it was going to be based on February payroll

[Jacques]

A chinese study publiced in Medical Journal, shows that 11% of children infected with covid19 are hit severely. 25% of coved19 hospitalised patients in Italy, are young people who suffer the same very very serious respiratory problems.

Kind regards,

jacques

[C8RKH]

7 hours ago, geartox said:

PS : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137039/French-border-guards-impound-trucks-filled-130-000-face-masks-bound-Britain.html . what a shame.

We are used to having to deal with the petty politics of the French political elite and the French Government. We've had to deal with it since around 1950, so for 70 years, and so it is just water off a ducks back for us now.

And then MAcron wonders why Brexit was voted for when EVERY year at Easter and Summer, French air traffic controllers go on strike and cause chaos for british and other fsamilies who just want to go on holiday. Every year, French farmers blockade ports etc. So why, at a time of national emergency would we expect anything different from French bureaucrats and politicians?

[tom kilner]

Isolation brings unexpected rewards after rooting through forgotten cupboards

 

Stella

bottle aged 5 years.

Awful.🤫

Bud

Bottle aged 3 years

Undrinkable. Almost.😬

Carlsberg

Can aged 8 years

Quite nice. 🤪

I've no idea what they should taste like as I don't usually drink lager.😵

[Bibs]

I'm not sure it's the virus that's going to make you feel unwell

[Mark Blanchard]

This whole thing is like a really bad movie you'd see advertised on Paramount / London Live / Movies4men about a virus that takes over the world and you'd think what a ridiculous plot, no I'm not watching that. But it's reality

[tom kilner]

Yes it's a load of rubbish.

Like this 3 year old fosters🤩

[Bibs]

I'm glad this isn't 8 year old cheese you're showing us

[tom kilner]

Aha

Found this in the cupboard!

1981 - 39 year old cheese

2 years after my elite.

 

[C8RKH]

17 minutes ago, tom kilner said:

Yes it's a load of rubbish.

Like this 3 year old fosters🤩

Fosters is total shite when fresh, my god, that must be awful

[stephenwhyte]

53 minutes ago, Mark Blanchard said:

This whole thing is like a really bad movie you'd see advertised on Paramount / London Live / Movies4men about a virus that takes over the world and you'd think what a ridiculous plot, no I'm not watching that. But it's reality

But do you believe it’s happening as it’s been told........or do you believe there’s something more sinister going on here - I just can’t buy that this is a plain and simple virus (perhaps more accurately an exceptionally off the scale brutal one!) that came about from natural causes🤔 

[Barrykearley]

I’ve a few medical friends whom are all of the same opinion - this is not a natural virus

[Dan E]

49 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Fosters is total shite when fresh, my god, that must be awful

Totally agree I would give up drinking if that was the only option 

[C8RKH]

28 minutes ago, stephenwhyte said:

But do you believe it’s happening as it’s been told........or do you believe there’s something more sinister going on here - I just can’t buy that this is a plain and simple virus (perhaps more accurately an exceptionally off the scale brutal one!) that came about from natural causes🤔 

Not sure. Look at the great flu pandemic from the early 1900's that killed millions globally. It's not like this has never happened before.

Aids was supposed to be a man made virus too. According to the usual conspiracy theorists.

I don't know if it is man made or not. I suspect most medical people have no idea either. However I am sure the Virologists will either have a good idea or will uncover where it came from. They're the experts after all. We'll hear sometime soon I think.

[tom kilner]

Surely if you wanted to wipe out the human race and were clever enough to develop a virus,  you'd be aiming higher that 1% mortality, and go for high contagion.

Many biologists and medical professionals have been saying for years that a pandemic of a new disease could cause global catastrophe. It has to happen, unless you don't believe in evolution.

We're lucky corvid19 is comparatively mild. It could be a lot worse.

Coronoviruses are well known for hanging around in different species, making them a prime candidate for the role.

There's an element of human interference raising the probability,  like scrapie, BSE leading to CJD in humans,  originating in poor food chain control for industrial meat production. That could have been a lot worse.

In fact many countries (for example usa France nz) still won't allow you to give blood if you spent more than a few months in the uk between 1980 and 1996.

Not reassuring. 🤔

Let's not mention the Wuhan university study of bat corona virus - its  a lot more likely it's greed and carelessness than brains and evil intent.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

That's just bad luck😶

[C8RKH]

@tom kilnerkilner - population density and close habitation to animals called out. I think in parts of the world we have severely breached peak population from a sustainability/ health perspective.

Until we accept we need to start to control and reduce population growth then we will, I believe, continue to accelerate the demise of the human race through environmental and health impacts.