Who will buy a 131?

[PAR]

One of the key question for me, is how big is the market going to be for the new sports series.

For all the current Lotus owners, they may love it but they willl need to up their budgets , particularly vs Elise and Exiges for a car that will probably not be faster.

people who can buy a McLaren, Ferrari or Lambo will probably keep buying those rather than spend less money.

Porsche customers are, well, snobs.

So, are there a lot of people out there that will pay 911 money for something else?

 

what do you guys think and how are you looking at it for yourself?

[exeterjeep]

Until we know what all the range options there are, it would be impossible for me to consider. If there is a variant that is easier to get in/out of than the Evora as I get older,  then that could be my next car. Also as the last lotus with a petrol / petrol hybrid it may have to be the one to choose. Lets hope it comes with a good length warranty. 

[Likuid]

I have no idea what this car or cars is going to be. In their image it was 3 cars, but no idea if all 3 are the 131 or only 1 is and the other 2 are other cars like the Alpine co-developed car. The one picture of the college next to the Evija made it look mini Elige sized non-electric Evija.

Personally for this car I would rather it move slightly up market from the Evora, but this is just my personal preference. There is huge void in the market in that price range. There are plenty of people who are not fans of Porsche. 

IMO there is too much competition that they just can't compete with down market. They don't have the cache of playing with the big boys (yet). However, what about a $130k car that gets you 80% of a $250k? Not sure if its possible for Lotus or not.

What I want to see:

• Use the Evora chassis, unless their are potential future safety issues, its already proven to be excellent
• Handle like a Lotus
• Manual and DCT options
• Drop the back seat, its a nice storage area, but pretty much useless otherwise
• More power, 500 - 550 I think would be a good sweet spot
• Looks good, exclusive
• Higher quality interior
• Longer warranty, 4 - 5 years

[Ali tuck]

Could be tempted in a few years- for me would need to have at least 450hp manual-light-and probably most important look the nuts

[Corsu]

I would probably purchase one, for only one reason, it should available with a manual Gearbox and for sure the last mid engine sport cars quite light. About the engine, I heard "45" M139 2.0 L Inline-4 Turbo", it's a very good engine, i've already tested it by driving an A45 AMG.

I will specify it as light as possible, I favor weight over power. It will be my last toy, i will never buy an electric sport car 🙂

Edited February 28, 2021 by Corsu

[Neal H]

I think it very much depends on whether it starts at £60k or £120k and whether it’s one car or three.

Given Lotus track record, I’ve no doubt it will look brilliant and drive properly 👍

[exeterjeep]

4 minutes ago, Neal H said:

I think it very much depends on whether it starts at £60k or £120k and whether it’s one car or three.

Surely it can't start at £120k there must be a range that starts at  a more affordable level. I don't want it to be too wide either.

[Bazza 907]

I want it to be wide, low, sleek, stunning lines and look as if it's doing 120mph stood still.

Oh, hang on a minute, I've already got two Esprits..

[PAR]

I think you need to assume a 4 cyl car at a 75k and a 6cyl at 100k+ once you consider options etc.

This won’t be aimed at beating Porsche on Price, just a5 being much cheaper than McLaren.

[exeterjeep]

4 minutes ago, PAR said:

I think you need to assume a 4 cyl car at a 75k

This does sound an expensive entry level car to replace the elise in its market., doesn't it need to be closer to £60/65, if they want to sell more cars from their new facility and recoup some costs? And to keep the new dealers selling cars.

[Ali tuck]

I also think a 4cyl car will be a hard sell at anymore than Elise money- if you’re asking top money for a performance car a 4cyl doesn’t cut the mustard-must be 6 cyl at the least,Look what happened to the cayman when they done that

[PAR]

This will be interesting but they clearly don’t want to be in the Elise market. Starting price may be 60k but I am pretty sure between options, paint, convertible version, most of the cars sold will be in the gbp75k area. The eng8ne will be good for 400bhp though but still, this is going te be a challenging market.

Volvos are coming with 3 year guarantee, I wonder if they will go longer here. I agree that would make sense.

[exeterjeep]

So if  the 131 is shown at Goodwood,  do we expect 1 version or more than 1 The tempting image posted showing 3 cars under wraps next to the Evija - so what are the chances of seeing more than 1 version, and if 1 version would one expect it to be at the lower or higher versions or in the middle. It needs to be one that will get of exposure in the motoring press, but not too expensive for 99.9 % of potential customers.. 

[TomE]

On 27/02/2021 at 16:55, Likuid said:

I have no idea what this car or cars is going to be. In their image it was 3 cars, but no idea if all 3 are the 131 or only 1 is and the other 2 are other cars like the Alpine co-developed car. The one picture of the college next to the Evija made it look mini Elige sized non-electric Evija.

Personally for this car I would rather it move slightly up market from the Evora, but this is just my personal preference. There is huge void in the market in that price range. There are plenty of people who are not fans of Porsche. 

IMO there is too much competition that they just can't compete with down market. They don't have the cache of playing with the big boys (yet). However, what about a $130k car that gets you 80% of a $250k? Not sure if its possible for Lotus or not.

What I want to see:

• Use the Evora chassis, unless their are potential future safety issues, its already proven to be excellent
• Handle like a Lotus
• Manual and DCT options
• Drop the back seat, its a nice storage area, but pretty much useless otherwise
• More power, 500 - 550 I think would be a good sweet spot
• Looks good, exclusive
• Higher quality interior
• Longer warranty, 4 - 5 years

You're pretty close there.  At launch it'll be a V6 manual at £80k base then with options on top.  Soon after that there'll be a 4cyl turbo with DCT from £60k base.  VVA based chassis architecture.  New factory to build it, so upping the game on build quality.  Styling will take cues from the Evija and still make reference to recent Lotus designs.  Handling?  Like a Lotus.  So, in the same way the Evora gives you 90% of the performance of a car 2x as expensive, the same for the Type 131.  Don't go head to head with Porsche or McLaren, but produce a great drivers car that is a step up from the Evora on all the non-driving attributes.  My name's down for one.

[Greg | ValetPro]

My guess is that the 131 will be the platform for more than one car.     So I guessing there will be an entry model like the elise and then move up to or above the evora market.  I guessing there will be styling differences and power out put differences to differentiate between models. 

I currently considering what to do. In fairness the Lock down is holding me back on what to buy.  I'm keeping my Elise 111s for track day use.  I've had a Evora Sports Race and miss this car more than any other i've had.  So I'm now considering if I buy and Esprit V8, Evora 400 or just wait for the new car.  I'm also guessing that once the new car is here if I want an Evora 400 there is likely to be more on the market and that might bring the price down.  I do squeak when I walk.

In any event the Evora 400 is a great car, but I do think Lotus will do something amazing with this new car.  Maybe I should wait till the let us know more details.

[PAR]

The basic of any marketing of cars is to start by the top model to make people want one, sell it to the people who can afford it first then start to offer cheaper product benefiting from the halo effect.

therefore they should start with the higher spec big engine version and then launch the 4cyl as a less desirable cheaper car.

In the sports car market, once you are out of Mx5 segment, the more expensive, the more sales on the long run. Alpine has seen it, as soon as they sold one to all the nostalgic, they didn’t have a market anymore. Porsche sells twice as may 911 as Cayman/boxsters.

 

Lotus will need to create a market if they want to sell the 10k car the new factory could produce.

[Escape]

On 28/02/2021 at 17:59, Ali tuck said:

I also think a 4cyl car will be a hard sell at anymore than Elise money- if you’re asking top money for a performance car a 4cyl doesn’t cut the mustard-must be 6 cyl at the least,Look what happened to the cayman when they done that

Mercedes recently announced future AMGs will no longer get a whopping V8 (that has already been downsized and turbocharged) but just a 4-pot with hybrid help. We don't have to like it, I know I don't, but they must see it as what the market want. No way it will sound as epic though! Glad I just scratched an itch and got a V12 (not a Merc, in case anyone is wondering).

What I've seen of the 131 certainly has grabbed my attention. Much more so than the Evora when that was launched. I'm not really in the market for a new car, but it's definitely something to follow closely. Might be the last affordable drivers car ever...

Filip

[TomE]

The market is changing.  A 4cyl turbo with DCT, decent power. light weight and Lotus handling won't win at "Top Trumps" down the pub, but it'll be a cracking drivers car.  It won't be as cheap as an Elise, that's not what this immediate launch is aimed at.  A £60k to £80k range crosses more than one model of a few competitors.  Although the Evora was talked about as a 911 competitor, it straddled both Cayman and 911 price-wise and didn't necessarily try to compete head on with either.  Lotus is better trying to differentiate rather than "me too" against Porsche.

[C8RKH]

11 minutes ago, TomE said:

Lotus is better trying to differentiate rather than "me too" against Porsche.

I agree to an extent.

If you take the Evora, you could argue size wise it was a 911 competitor, but always seemed to be compared against the Cayman.

Performance and size wise it was at a 911 level at a good comparison price point when you looked at what Porsche owners really paid as opposed to base list price.

But as it was always compared to a Cayman, whilst the performance was stronger it was criticised for being too expensive.

My point is if you try to differentiate you DON'T want to get to the same situation where the new car is "measured" against the wrong competitor, arguably, as the Evora was.

Really looking forward to seeing the new car.

[TomE]

I agree and it was both a plus and a minus for the Evora.  It was "better" than both Cayman and 911 depending on your criteria (+2 seats for some , price, performance, handling, depreciation, running costs, rarity).  But the motoring press tried to compare against both.  The V6 Exige was more obviously not a 911 and if there was a Porsche competitor it was the Cayman, but not if you consider some of the criteria.

I'm hoping Lotus have learned more about positioning, marketing, launching, press briefing etc since the Evora.  Looking forward not just to the car but how they bring it to market.

[Techyd]

Yep, the age of old marketing issue that Lotus has, especially to combat the marketing of Porsche themselves, I really do wonder how much influence they exert on the motoring press in one form or another; something as simple as seeing it compared the 'wrong car' perhaps 😉

 

[MrP_]

I'm certainly interested. I've got the weekend escape by myself and have fun car sorted  (if I ever finish it), and starting with kids early means we are not far off changing the locks and kicking them out, meaning I don't need a big car and don't need easy ingress/egress for aching joints.

So I'm actually looking at it as a less practical M5 alternative rather than a more practical Exige alternative. 

Dealers will be the deciding factor, I am not going to fight to give anyone money like it seems most of my previous Lotus buys have been like. Everytime I've spoken to a dealer they just seem to shut down the conversation so they aren't trying to drum up interest at all, no idea why I'd probably stick a deposit down and risk loosing it if it turns out not to be my liking but can't get the conversation that far so I've given up at the moment

[hml_xy]

I'm tempted as well. The idea of a more "modern" style is what tickles my interest. Also, what about rumours of Merc engines being used (read that on Pistonheads)? 
I really like the Evija styling and my dealer told me the 131 should be more daily/comfortable than the Evora. He used the words "a mix of Vantage, F-Type and Evija" 🧐 Not sure if he was talking about market segments because two of those are clearly front-engine based. Also, I heard that they are going to upcycle the Evora platform for it?!

[rallyesax]

The mule car was based on an Evora as pictures showed last year. No chance the engine could have been at the front 😉

[PAR]

I highly doubt there would be a market for a front engined Lotus, at least as the project restart first car.

AMG 4cyl 2.0l engine sounds like definitely an option. 6 cylinder a bit more com0lex as AMG does 3.0l straight 6 so if we are looking at a bigger displacement V6 like some competition, that may need to keep the Toyota connection or look somewhere else.