Ukraine

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I don’t think we’ve started a proper thread on this situation yet. What do you lot think will happen? Seems to me that one of Putin’s main “demands” is that Ukraine never joins NATO so that he can keep that geographical buffer, but that the Ukrainian Constitution has been changed since Russia annexed the Crimea to make NATO accession one of Ukraine’s political aims. Of course, there is presumably no chance of Ukraine itself ever ruling out achieving NATO membership, so Putin can make the decision for them by invading Ukraine and absorbing it back into an old style Soviet Union. That would mean a relatively quick and permanent end to Ukraine’s NATO ambitions. He knows it’s a war he would win, especially since NATO members like the US and UK have publicly stated that they won’t send troops to defend Ukraine. Putin will be hailed as a a great warrior back home and continue his seemingly permanent hold on power in his sham democracy.

[exeterjeep]

My son's  girl friend/ex/ friend (its complicated,.) is from Ukraine and her mum has worked for some well off people/institutions over there, and indeed is head accountant of one of the countries financial government depts. The ex is a bit worried about what could happen.

[Bibs]

I was under the impression it would be a very unpopular war for him at home, the Russian's don't really have a taste for their sons coming home in boxes. If he invades, I think it'll do him no political favours with the people. 

[comem47]

The man who shows himsef off riding bare chested on a horse is all about ego and "mine is bigger than yours". (his personal wealth) I think a united front against his personal wealth will be all he understands.

[910Esprit]

4 hours ago, Bibs said:

I was under the impression it would be a very unpopular war for him at home,

I know from Belarusian family that Putin can do no wrong (unbelievably...) and that position seems unshakable.  I also know that whatever the Russian media says is true  🤣  i.e you can be certain that the Russians will ultimately believe they are the innocent victim of Ukrainian/Western aggression.        

[MJON]

He’s a little man with massive ego, two such went before him, they both tried to conquer Russia but failed. If he was at the helm of China now that would be dangerous. Don’t think anyone knows what his game really is today?

[march]

It's interesting but I have heard 2 news channels talk about Putin as if he is unhinged.

[Barrykearley]

Thankfully we have Boris who knows lies from fact. And the USA have Biden - who knows - well he’s probably forgotten.

[Spinney]

Putin keeps prodding Ukraine and I hope they stick to their present policy of not rising to the bait. Ukraine obviously knows full well it will not win if Putin does fabricate an excuse to invade, no matter how bravely they fight. 
I’ve been of the opinion all along it is sabre rattling by Putin, using Ukraines continued independence as a bargaining chip to dissuade them from all idea of joining NATO. 
I just hope I’m right!🤞

[Bibs]

15 hours ago, MJON said:

If he was at the helm of China now that would be dangerous.

I think China have recently told him to calm down dear which didn't go down too well in Moscow.

[pete]

The distraction of Ukraine may tempt the Chinese to test the Russian defences on the China Siberia border. 

[pete]

So Putin has sent troops into eastern Ukraine as 'peace keepers'

[ramjet]

Peace keepers? Was there civil unrest or something?

 Underhanded attempt to escalate a non-event. 

[Mark Blanchard]

Peacekeepers but he said there’s going to be blood shed.  There’s nothing peaceful about blood shed.

[exeterjeep]

UN sometimes sends peacekeepers, but I expect the Russian ones will keep the 'peace' more forcefully. One mans peace is another mans oppression.

[ramjet]

Why are they going to keep the peace?

Are the Ukrainians going on the offensive? Or are the Ukrainians all fighting between themselves?

The Russians have just walked across the border to 'keep the peace' where there is no need. How to get people behind the front lines overtly.

[andydclements]

Russia (and USSR) have a history of misinformation to drive their own people to believe their actions are for the good of the people they are invading the country of. Such as dropping bread to starving Finns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_bread_basket

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

There is a series of documentaries on BBC2 at the moment called “The Rise of the Dictators”. Episode one focused on the relationship between Hitler and Stalin. Many of the same tactics could be seen over on the news channels! Eg. Hitler’s army marching in unopposed to Austria and part of Czechoslovakia, the mass build-up of forces on the Russian border, the blustering speeches, the “friendly” face-to-face meetings between both sides, followed by complete hostility and espionage behind closed doors, the uncontrollable egos of both men, the hapless reactions of their brow-beaten officials, etc. All that before a shot was fired.

[MJON]

Fairford air base, U2 spy plane been here a while now with four B52’s joining last week. Flight activity on a regular basis since returning here. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes just saw a B52 fly overhead, but this is just a normal secondment. B52s, B1s and B2s come over in rotation to Fairford for a few weeks exercise on a regular basis. Nothing to do with Ukraine. The U2 is also a regular visitor, but probably of more use for intelligence gathering now than in normal times.

I would expect the B52s to return home as planned. Don’t forget that neither the US nor UK expect to get directly involved with this conflict. Other than launching cruise missiles from far away, I don’t see what else a B52 could do to help anyway. It would be an easy target for Russian defences.

Nevertheless, they are awesome things. Here’s a gratuitous photo of one flying overhead the last time they were here.

[exeterjeep]

Lucky Trump is ex president..

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/trump-praises-putins-genius-incursion-234001945.html

Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday praised Russian President Vladimir Putin's decision to send Russian troops into Ukraine to support Russian-backed separatists in the Luhansk and Donetsk provinces. In an appearance on the right-wing talk radio program "the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," Trump broke his conspicuous silence on the crisis to applaud the Russian dictator.

 

Someone shut him up for ever.

[basalte]

Russia uses disinformation, no doubt . Reminds me of certain politicians here talking about weapons of mass destruction that can be launched  in 45 minutes and any disbelievers called “ traitors “…

[march]

Don't forget we have our very own Jeremy Corbyn here in the UK.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10538829/Jeremy-Corbyn-slammed-attacking-Nato-UKs-aggressive-posturing-Ukraine.html

 

[exeterjeep]

3 minutes ago, march said:

Don't forget we have our very own Jeremy Corbyn here in the UK.

Someone else we can do without.

[basalte]

Errr… Corbyn called yesterday for Russian troops to leave the occupied areas …but of course the Mail spins even that as anti -West . The least trusted newspaper in Britain . 

Edited February 23, 2022 by basalte