Is electric really the answer?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I think the real answer is to lock this thread. Like the subject matter: so boring.

[C8RKH]

31 minutes ago, KAS-118 said:

I don't know - I'm struggling a bit - should I believe what's supported by numerous independent sources the internet

Yup. You believe the internet. Go ahead. Obviously it's all true - https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/looking-for-life-on-a-flat-earth

:) :) :)

 

[KAS-118]

No, I said I check my sources. Yes, some things on the internet are false, but also there’s a lot what’s true.

For example this forum is on the internet. Some of the content on here is true - but some isn’t, examples of inaccurate information being hydrogen being easy to store and transport,  that Tesla said the Model 3 is supposed to be out in the UK in 2015 or that 0 or 2 years delay is no different to 4 years delay.

The thing what you have to do is identify the inaccurate sources.....🤔

I just think it’s a shame when inaccurate information is permitted to obscure the accurate.  

 

[C8RKH]

I think it's a shame when someone on a forum like this shares their personal experience and is effectively called a liar.

I think it's a shame when someone who works with an industry tries to share their expertise and takes the time to try to explain things and is told they talk shit by someone who's a google warrior.

But hey, no harm done and I doubt either of us will lose any sleep over it and we are all allowed our opinions as it's still a free world. Peace and happiness. Enjoy your Tesla but please allow those of us who are not converts to believe the world is still flat. 

[Barrykearley]

6 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I think it's a shame when someone on a forum like this shares their personal experience and is effectively called a liar. 

Apparently I lie a lot. Some would even consider the vacuum levels I’ve measured on a turbo charged Esprit engine not to be enough to safely run a brake servo as a lie 👍. Still I’ll just sit back and watch the fall out.

[KAS-118]

15 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I think it's a shame when someone on a forum like this shares their personal experience and is effectively called a liar.

I think it's a shame when someone who works with an industry tries to share their expertise and takes the time to try to explain things and is told they talk shit by someone who's a google warrior.

But hey, no harm done and I doubt either of us will lose any sleep over it and we are all allowed our opinions as it's still a free world. Peace and happiness. Enjoy your Tesla but please allow those of us who are not converts to believe the world is still flat. 

I think is a shame when someone on the Forum says something that doesn’t quite add up - and when they’re politely asked to explain their calculations they can’t justify them, can’t acknowledge they just made a simple mistake but instead him and is forum pal decide to deride someone for pointing out the error. 

its clearly wrong to suggest anyone was calling anyone else a liar - merely that they had made a mistake.

I also have become rather exasperated by the number of self proclaimed experts who make erroneous statements - and justify they’re erroneous statements by merely telling you they’re an expert. I’m dealing with a ‘Delay Expert’ at the moment who can’t add 13 months onto a date correctly. 

For your information I don’t actually own a Tesla, neither do I  plan on ordering one at the moment.

As I have stated before I was planning to buy an Evora but I need a proper 2+2. So I’ve decided to wait and see what these new cars that Lotus are supposed to be bringing out before I make any decision. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by KAS-118

[Dave Eds]

5 hours ago, Bibs said:

Guys, please use the 'ignore user' button. You'll both be happier, me too. 

I'll come back when TLF becomes less like the playground mate....

[Bibs]

Any more posts in this thread from you three will be deleted. Put each other on ignore or find another website to argue amongst yourselves, it's not welcome here. 

I've had to tell you twice now, there won't be a third time. 

[DarrylV8]

As far as I can tell the nearest hydrogen station to us is about 20 miles away,  nothing against Rotherham but not likely to pop there for a refuel 

i suppose if Lotus were to bring out an electric or hydrogen car that replaced our winter daily driver then we would consider an alternative fuel car 

[Bibs]

Hybrids are copping a load of flak at the moment...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/hybrid-carmakers-accused-of-con-over-zero-emissions-claims

[ChrisJ]

 

[C8RKH]

4 hours ago, Bibs said:

Hybrids are copping a load of flak at the moment...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/hybrid-carmakers-accused-of-con-over-zero-emissions-claims

Is this just not the same manufacturers as brought us Dieselgate getting caught out but this time with Hybrids? Are we reaching a point where we cannot rely or believe manufacturers claims anymore re emissions, consumptions, green credentials, range, etc?

[oilmagnet477]

read some interesting reviews of the Mitsubishi PHEV recently. A few years ago I took an outlander for a test drive (the diesel) just before the PHEV was released. It wasn't a great car even then!

Claims are some where around 100-147mpg equivalent for the PHEV

I really don't know how they work these figures out? Car is reported to do about 25 miles on the car's batteries - so fine if you only drive 10 or so miles to work and back everyday. I guess there are probably quite a few who do that so it COULD work..

In the real world, however, if you put the heater on in cold weather to keep warm or defrost the windscreen, the car's engine fires up automatically. Someone recorded 10.4mpg even on a short journey on this basis.

With a hybrid, you are at least giving yourself additional range but what's the point of a hybrid if it can't do 75-100 miles minimum?

I guess tech will improve but I think hybrids will be outlawed before they manage to deliver that sort of performance

[USAndretti42]

You hit the nail on the head when you said, "In the real world."  The consumption numbers are accurate over the official test but the official test was unrelated to real driving.  Car makers have received a lot of flak for their cars not matching, in normal driving, the consumption figures measured and certified over the official test cycle.  I thing PHEVs were allowed to start the test with their batteries fully charged, hence the super-high mpg numbers they posted.  Likewise the NOx emissions being higher when measured on road that published for the test.  The test was bad.  Now the WLTP is used which should be more representative but manufacturers will still do what they are allowed to get the best results they can.  They have to because others will do it and customers will use those numbers when deciding what to buy.

I did meet a man once who had a Mitsubishi PHEV which he used only for short journeys and charged at home where he had solar panels that put more into the grid than he took out and he could not remember the last time he had to put fuel in his car but he was a rare case, I would say,

[Bibs]

 

[KAS-118]

Odd that it still seems to have a transmission tunnel in the back?

[mg4lotus]

Channeling air from the front to the back? making it porous like the Evija

[KAS-118]

Yeah, maybe - I guess it could come out of where the exhausts would normally go?

[KAS-118]

New EV Motor seems to be on the horizon soon. Only weighing 10kgs and capable of producing 295bhp

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/uk-firm-launch-worlds-most-power-dense-ev-motor

[oilmagnet477]

Yee haa - Norfolk based!

Would seem to be a great tie in to Lotus then and they could re-introduce an old strap line - 'adding lightness'

[KAS-118]

It does make you wonder if there will shortly be a Geely buy-out? 🙂

[mg4lotus]

On ‎03‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 11:33, KAS-118 said:

Odd that it still seems to have a transmission tunnel in the back?

Or it could be a ski compartment?

[au-yt]

On 03/03/2020 at 22:33, KAS-118 said:

Odd that it still seems to have a transmission tunnel in the back?

There is a lot more stuff to electric cars than just a battery and an engine as they require cooling and heating systems for the motors and battery. and packaging becomes an issue in fact they are worse than good old petrol cars

[KAS-118]

I'm sorry but I don't believe that, overall, an Internal Combustion engine car has better packaging overall - or requires less cooling.

When Lotus launched the Evija they explained that because they didn't have to worry about the cooling of the electric motors as much, they were able to shape the airflow to go through the car rather than have to go into it.

The fact you need less cooling in an EV is why they have 'filled-in' radiator grills.

The Electric motors are a lot smaller than an equivalent internal combustion engine - and, you can lose the gearbox, prop propshaft and fuel tank.

Yes, you do have a large battery pack - but that can be put in he floor (although I note in the Evija the batteries are stacked). 

Hence, if you look at a Tesla 3, not only do you get a large boot, and good leg room in the back - you also get useable storage in the front. 

However. I would have thought that Hybrids would have worse packaging.

Although I can't find a full video of the Evija's launch where the packaging of an EV was discussed - if you look at this Autocar Review its briefly mentioned at 1:50 and 8:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko8hoJ5-eTA

[Bibs]

2 hours ago, KAS-118 said:

Although I can't find a full video of the Evija's launch where the packaging of an EV was discussed