Is electric really the answer?

[pete]

[Bibs]

WTF? They really need to rename that area and Kahn is a money grabing pr1ck IMO. It's never been about air quality, but greed. 

[exeterjeep]

Suppose his point is that when all Londoners have gone BEV then the congestion is still an issue... He wants to get rid of cars.

If Trump becomes US president, may be he could deal (remove permanently) with Khan with no comeback.

Wonder what the incoming (new) chancellor will do to the tax for EV's. As current plans EV's will pay the full whack plus the 40k top up if over £40k when new..

.

 

[Bibs]

That's the congestion charge though which BEV's have been liable for and pay, this is the Ultra Low Emissions Zone. 

[exeterjeep]

11 hours ago, Bibs said:

Ultra Low Emissions Zone

From the article I read it's the congestion charge...

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13591417/Electric-car-drivers-forced-pay-Londons-Congestion-Charge-15-day-Christmas-2025.html

Congestion Charge discount will be removed for EVs from 25 December 2025

That's because from 25 December 2025 EVs will have to pay the full amount to drive in the capital's Congestion Charge Zone, Transport for London has confirmed this week.

Owners of zero-emission models currently benefit from only having to pay £10 for an annual exemption from the charging zone, but TfL has confirmed they will be stung with the standard rate - a £15 daily charge - from the end of next year.

 

[Bibs]

Ah. Makes sense then, it's congestion after all. Weirdly, the few times I was there in an EV I had to pay still. 

It's a bit of a scam system. Despite being the 21st century, you can't check if you're liable to pay if you've been in or around the CC or ULEZ areas, it wouldn't be hard to make live data available. It just means if you think you may have entered you have to pay and if it happens that you didn't and your car isn't on the system for that day, of course they just keep your money. 

[ChrisJ]

I've registered my cars with tfl so that if I get caught by a camera in the outer ulez I'll automatically pay rather than be fined a month later. This is mainly for my Excel as it doesn't qualify for an exemption yet.

[C8RKH]

I have no sympathy for Londoners on this. The pricks in London voted the prick in. What did they think would happen?

Yes, I understand that people outside London are impacted. You have my sympathy as you had no right to vote for the prick.

[Gjk]

54 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Yes, I understand that people outside London are impacted. You have my sympathy as you had no right to vote for the prick.

I think the people outside London who are impacted should get to vote when it gets to mayor election time!

[exeterjeep]

How about a democratic choice for what we want to own/drive. 

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/it-may-be-impossible-to-order-petrol-and-diesel-cars-later-this-year-stellantis-boss/304419

Car buyers at brands including Vauxhall, Peugeot and Alfa Romeo could have no other option than to buy an electric car later this year as petrol and diesel models are temporarily removed from sale.

Parent group Stellantis has said it may be forced to throttle back sales of petrol and diesel cars later this year as it attempts to avoid paying ZEV Mandate fines.

[C8RKH]

Just more threats from Stellantis. It seems to be their modus operandi when they don't get what they want. Wasn't that long ago they were threatening to cut all UK production of Vauxhalls etc. Just the same old bullshit.

What I can see happening is a massive increase in Petrol and Diesel new car prices as the ZEV fines of £15k per car are pushed onto buyers.

So instead of EVs coming down in price, Petrol and Diesel car prices will be pushed up to match, or even exceed EV prices. Then you don't need to subsidies EVs.

The end result is that we are getting well and truly fooked over a barrel.

[Chillidoggy]

I’m now giving serious consideration to buying my Focus when the PCP is up next year. The purchase price at the end of the term is very low by comparison of what I’m seeing for new cars.

[C8RKH]

I've been offered a fully specc'd Audi E-Tron GT, worth £125k list, for £75k brand new. That's a £50k discount on new price!

I've just checked, and I can get a 1 year old car, for less than £48k.

The E-Tron GT is a great looking car, arguably one of the pinnacle electric models from what many perceive to be the premium brand (obviously not including Bentley, RRoyce etc) so if this is what is happening to their top of the range electric cars, what hope do others have?

Right now, it's getting to be absolutely savage out their for premium EV's. Buy with caution as the price discounting is expected to continue into 2025, if my informed industry insider is to be believed.

There is no doubt that Labour will return to pushing the EV agenda hard. Already, I am hearing that government subsidies on new EV's will be returning.

It's absolutely the wrong thing to do in my opinion, as the market for EV's will only truly take off when prices comes down, range improves, but most importantly of all, the INFRASTRUCTURE required to support mass EV adoption is invested and installed.

This is where the Government should be pouring its subsidies, not into the pockets of company directors who can exploit salary sacrifice to buy over priced, over powered, EV SUV's.

Interestingly, Toyota are supplying the Paris Olympics with a fleet of Hydrogen cars to act as the official vehicles of the 2024 Paris Olympics.

[Bibs]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-10836132.amp

[exeterjeep]

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/stellantis-invests-millions-more-to-help-electric-flying-cars-project-take-off/304901

Must have money to burn...

Stellantis invests millions more to help electric flying cars project take off

Fresh investment by Stellantis into electric air taxis initiative

Vehicle manufacturer is ploughing millions into aviation firm Archer

Construction of high-volume factory on track for completion later this year

 

On a separate note, went in to our Jeep dealer this morning to arrange a drive of a Renegade PHEV, the young salesman's view is that the EV target will keep slipping and the cars will eventually be hydrogen. Which is the same view that we got a few months ago at Matford JLR.

[JimmytheTurbo]

Did everyone see this?

 

Owner was very lucky and a hero!

 

[Kimbers]

I have warned everyone time and time again. At last the Motor organisations are starting to listen to what we have been saying for a year now.

DO NOT BUY AN EV! Even if you get offered one at half price it will be at quarter price within a few months! There are thousands and thousands sitting at docks unsold, manufacturers will have to register these at some point and flog for nothing further pushing down prices. One dealer said yesterday to me "We can't give away EV's used and only sell them new if they are on Salary sacrifice or company vehicles. Don't try and sell me one cause we won't buy EV's any more".

And don't quote SMMT figures, these are purposely being botched to try and make EV sales look like they are happening or so Manufacturers don't get fined by not hitting EV targets set by the totally oblivious and blinkered Government!. Mainly through forced Registrations (making dealers register them as Demos/Courtesy vehicles and Pre Reg then standing them up in a field for years).

Collapsing BEV values pose “existential threat” to leasing industry (fleetnews.co.uk)

[ChrisJ]

I have read somewhere else that sales of new ICE vehicles have been put on hold by some manufacturers, and that even if you have ordered one and it has arrived in country, you will not be getting it until the dealer/manufacturer have "sold" their quota of EVs.

 

[jonwat]

Ford: going all-electric in Europe by 2030 was "too ambitious"

[Kimbers]

I see the new Labour Govt have confirmed the death of all new ICE cars from 2030 (despite there not going to be an infrastructure by then).

Blind as well as stupid!

[C8RKH]

So how is this going to work as Reeves is telling us they have no money, so surely EV tax dodges for the rich will not be on the cards?

[Kimbers]

If you need any more proof of how rediculous the Climate policies are becoming then you don't need to look any further than Edinburgh who have fallen foul of their own restrictions and policies and are having to spend £2000 a day (yes a day) to hire low emission vehicles as their fleet don't meet restrictions.

Actually, when you look at commercial vehicles the Electric vans aren't fit for purpose.

That's where your hard earned Council Tax is going Scottish residents!!

Council spends £2,000 a day so fleet complies with low emission zone (fleetnews.co.uk)

[Rambo]

Totally agree, Edinburgh City Council are a bunch of wankers. It's why I moved to the Borders 20 years ago 🤔

[C8RKH]

Just had an email from carwow, offering a £13k discount on a brand new, built to your spec, Peugeot E-2008, reducing the £33k list price to £20k!!!  What an absolute bargain for a brand new car!

With prices falling so drastically it now becomes much more of an interesting proposition to switch to Electric. I could swap my wifes 3.5 year old Skoda Karoq for this brand new car with nothing to pay!

I believe prices for EVs will continue to fall in 2024, especially as the ZEV "fines" become ever more real. Finally, we are seeing EVs being priced at a level that just might tempt the masses to switch.

[Kimbers]

It's only going to get worse!

How government EV sales targets are forcing car makers to use drastic tactics to inflate numbers | Daily Mail Online