Is electric really the answer?

[C8RKH]

28 minutes ago, Dan E said:

I have to say @C8RKH my wife has had one of these for the last two maybe three years, bought new (one of the last ones before they stopped production) for her it is absolutely brilliant

I said it was a good car, just fugly on the outside.

[Dan E]

10 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Didn't one of them rock up in an Eletre the other week?! 

Yes they did, I sent you the picture, It would have been a scaffolder or a Ground-worker 😀

5 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I said it was a good car, just fugly on the outside.

Oh I quite like them!! 

[C8RKH]

5 minutes ago, Dan E said:

Oh I quite like them!! 

Some men find Janet Street-Porter attractive. Nuff said.

[Rambo]

16 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Some men find Janet Street-Porter attractive. Nuff said.

Some women do too. Strange world 🤔

[drdoom]

Is this turmoil in EV markets just convulsions in the journey to a non-ownership model of car custody? In a lease-only world the recycling and obsolescence aspects would be integrated into the business model while preserving the general industry well-being.

[C8RKH]

Don't think so @drdoom. I think the long term goal of the "powers" is that we ditch the private car altogether and driverless "Uber" type services will handle the local journeys for people who live in towns and cities. Autonomous little cars that will always obey the speed limit, follow the laws and rules of the road, and spit out no emissions. So the number of accidents decrease (health bill savings), the need for enforcement stops (police bill savings), etc etc.

We are seeing the early sights of the death of the modern day dinosaurs, which is, to coin a well known manufacturers slogan and butcher it, "the drivers".

The tech in the cars now is already monitoring your driving - how you drive, your speed, your journeys, your location, your journey durations etc. The raw data is being collected, and will then be curated and analysed to teach AI how to plan journeys to the optimal conditions, times etc.

The future looks shite!

[NAC63]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25490014/third-london-electric-bus-fire/

[yeller77]

Toyota remains unconvinced...

[C8RKH]

Toyota have taken quite a conservative, common sense, approach to the whole thing over the past 10-15 years, starting out and keeping with the PHEV/Hybrid technology, looking at Solid State batteries, and developing hydrogen fuel cell.  Almost feels like Toyota is a corporate being run by adults!

[Rambo]

https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/electric-car-sales-drop-petrol-diesel-drivers-switch

[C8RKH]

The point the AA man missed, the "expert", was that people are told to regularly charge their cars to 80% (not 100%) as this protects the battery the best.

Then, in the winter, you can lose another 20% of range from the cold.

Then, you're not supposed to let the battery drop below 20% during usage (again, best advice to protect the battery).

So you actually have an advisable usage range of 80% (the maximum recommended charge) - 20% the charge you should not go below - 20% the cold "loss" = 40% recommended range

So assume a WLPT of 300 miles, you have a recommended usable range of 120 miles!

All very academic. All bullshit. But you can see why some people get confused etc etc etc.  

[jonwat]

What is it like to live with an electric car?

[Rambo]

FCHEV'S - way to go.....

https://lagradaonline.com/en/bmw-hydrogen-engines/

Edited January 27 by Rambo

[Suddabym]

yes. I have one and it rocks

[Chillidoggy]

Don’t forget to take one of these with you if you’re taking your EV to France.

 

[pete]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/introducing-rimac-energy-cutting-edge-stationary-energy-storage-technology-created-in-europe-301815923.html.                          

The owner of rimac is so clever

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, pete said:

The owner of rimac is so clever

Yes, and seems to be a far nicer fella than the other one, based in the US.

[pete]

who has just had his 56million dollar pay annulled

56 billion

[pete]

https://hydrogen-central.com/bmw-says-goodbye-to-electric-cars-it-has-now-solved-the-problem-of-hydrogen-engines-mes/

Another one for hydrogen

[drdoom]

The hitch with hydrogen, whether burned in ICE or processed in a fuel cell is supply. Extracting from water takes energy, extraction from petroleum takes energy and yields waste matter. 

[Escape]

BMW was running a fleet of hydrogen 7-series for taxi duty already in the 90s, at some German airport I think. Never heard how the project ended, clearly it's a hot topic again and they could have a head start.

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, drdoom said:

The hitch with hydrogen, whether burned in ICE or processed in a fuel cell is supply. Extracting from water takes energy, extraction from petroleum takes energy and yields waste matter. 

Huge natural deposits of Hydrogen have now been found in Europe, particularly France, Poland and Portugal (iirc) which seems to be sitting on 50% of the world's reserves of raw hydrogen!
The hydrogen is created naturally when water reacts to iron oxide in the ground. The hydrogen is released and then captured in the caverns etc.  As this is a natural reaction it is viewed as being an unlimited supply, obviously as long as we don't pump it out and use it faster than nature can make it.

In addition, we have megawatts of offshore (and some onshore) wind energy that currently goes to waste as when it is being produced there is little demand. That can be diverted to frack the hydrogen from water, so by using energy that was going unused the high cost of the operation is reduced significantly.

Indeed, there is at least one plan for an offshore wind farm to be used solely to create the energy for green hydrogen, a bit like wind farms being built to serve water desalination plants.

 

This was always going to happen. The need to shift away from coal, natural gas and oil, was always going to create interest in, and innovation around, alternative fuels. Too many people have been suckered into thinking the ONLY solution was EV's. I've said it before and I'll say it again, just like Betamax, EV's will have their place, but will they dominate the market?  Hmmm. I'm really not sure.

 

I believe we'll end up with EVs as the major player in towns and cities - HGV's will be banned from entering the Towns and Cities and we'll have transport hubs on the periphery. HGV's will deliver to Town/City distribution points, and then smaller EV vans will move the goods from their, silently and cleanly, into the shops, businesses and homes within the towns and cities. Eventually, this will be automated with driverless, electric vans. Cars will be phased out of the towns and cities and replaced by e-bikes, walking and electric public transport.

 

HGVs, cars, and vans that need to travel long distances will be hydrogen fuel cell, due to the ability to refuel them quickly and the longer range they will provide.

 

The vehicle systems. The legislation. The Regulation. It's all being worked on behind the scenes and we are seeing it drip fed into society and vehicles marketed as "innovation" and safety improvements.

 

There is no long term future, "for the drivers".

51 minutes ago, Escape said:

BMW was running a fleet of hydrogen 7-series for taxi duty already in the 90s

In the 30's and 40's Britain and Germany were running a fleet of hydrogen airships!

[Escape]

Combusting that hydrogen wasn't exactly the intention, now was it?

[Kimbers]

8 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

HGVs, cars, and vans that need to travel long distances will be hydrogen fuel cell, due to the ability to refuel them quickly and the longer range they will provide.

 

Electric HGV's will last no more than a few years once Hydrogen HGV's start rolling out. For a start they don't need an "infrastructure" as big as Diesel as they can carry Huge tanks on board. Secondly, and more importantly (Having worked in the industry for 10 years before switching to cars) The 3 tons of battery power in an EV Truck will be so much less in a Hydrogen Truck and carrying capacity is king. Once your competitors with 100 trucks are pumping out deliveries at 300 tons a job more than you you will pretty soon get rid of the heavy, long charging, unlikeable EV trucks. There is 100% no doubt in my mind about this.

The same is true of Vans. Stellantis who have a full range of EV vans are about to bring out a Hydrogen Van at the end of the year. They have recognised that not only is a "Real" range of 80-125 miles no good for commercial vehicles, but they lose 200kg of 1000kg to batteries which again is 20% of their load carrying capability. Again, I have already seen several companies switching to hydrogen by getting their own Tanks fitted. They fill up before they leave and that's enough for the day, whereas electric Vans would have to charge at least twice during the day to do the same.

Now I know a company and they have been very vocal, who have a different issue with EV vans. Their drivers. Not only has it added 1-2 hours a day to their drivers working day to do the same thing (2 fill ups) but some drivers are refusing to do an extra 2 hours a day reducing the companies money generating work day. The MD tells me his other issue is that Drivers don't care. They just want to earn their money and go home. Because if this they fill up wherever they can that is easiest and this is often a mainstream filling station costing 72pKwh. That makes it twice as expensive per mile as a diesel van. Companies cannot, in good faith, afford these costs and they are now going back to Diesel for the "foreseeable future".

[Sparky]

20 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

Stellantis who have a full range of EV vans are about to bring out a Hydrogen Van at the end of the year.

Ah yes, the Stellantis Boom, I believe it's called.